tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post1206408648184579558..comments2024-03-17T16:21:14.907-05:00Comments on Stop Baptist Predators: Why didn't Baptists bust him?Christa Brownhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-5020413067451943642009-04-02T10:37:00.000-05:002009-04-02T10:37:00.000-05:00The Waco Tribune article: "Former Waco-area pastor...The Waco Tribune article: <A HREF="http://www.wacotrib.com/news/content/news/stories/2009/03/26/03262009wacmattbakergj.html" REL="nofollow">"Former Waco-area pastor indicted on murder charge in wife's death"</A>Christa Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-51918457352784859582009-04-02T09:44:00.000-05:002009-04-02T09:44:00.000-05:00Anon 6:13 - With all due respect... Texas Monthly ...Anon 6:13 - With all due respect... Texas Monthly and renowned journalist Skip Hollandsworth put their names and reputations on the line with everything they write. As an anonymous commenter, you put nothing on the line.<BR/><BR/>But EVEN IF you're correct - i.e., EVEN IF FBC-Waco "fired" Matt Baker - this case is still a dreadfully tragic demonstration of how Baptists have a grossly inadequate system for clergy accountability and one that allows clergy predators to simply move on from church to church.Christa Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-83864264883100612472009-04-02T07:58:00.000-05:002009-04-02T07:58:00.000-05:00Matt was finally indicted for Kari's murder. Just...Matt was finally indicted for Kari's murder. Justice for at least that is coming soon.<BR/><BR/>For updates:<BR/>www.dontevengetstarted.blogspot.comShannonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-52710414222678708412009-04-01T18:13:00.000-05:002009-04-01T18:13:00.000-05:00With all due respect to you and Texas Monthly, the...With all due respect to you and Texas Monthly, the article is inaccurate about the firing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-75082993289817208152009-04-01T10:39:00.000-05:002009-04-01T10:39:00.000-05:00Actually, according to the very lengthy and extens...Actually, according to the very lengthy and extensively researched <A HREF="http://stopbaptistpredators.org/article08/valley_of_the_shadow_of_death.html" REL="nofollow">Texas Monthly article</A>, when other ministers at First Baptist of Waco received the report about Matt grabbing a female custodian, and also the report about him cornering a teenage girl, they <B>"didn't fire him."</B><BR/><BR/>Moreover, according to <I>Texas Monthly</I>, "First Baptist officials said nothing about the allegations when other churches later called, interested in hiring Matt." <I>Texas Monthly</I> apparently interviewed FBC-Waco's pastor who was quoted as saying, "I didn't want to be known as the man who ruined his career."<BR/><BR/>So... First Baptist of Waco quietly got Matt out of their own church, but they simply let him move on to other unsuspecting churches. Apparently, they didn't even give him a negative reference. This is typical of how Baptist churches handle clergy abuse reports, and this case illustrates how extremely dangerous and irresponsible it is.Christa Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-37995761828569520672009-03-31T15:13:00.000-05:002009-03-31T15:13:00.000-05:00Careful here. First Baptist Waco fired Mat on-the-...Careful here. First Baptist Waco fired Mat on-the-spot with the custodian incident.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-11211441477886698572008-03-21T11:20:00.000-05:002008-03-21T11:20:00.000-05:00On this lovely Good Friday, Matt has decided to sl...On this lovely Good Friday, Matt has decided to slung nasty mud around. Mud that won't stick. Well, it will on him...but not his intended target. You can check it out on the WacoTrib.com (2 stories today)or updates at www.dontevengetstarted.blogspot.com.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-73735122138066191942008-03-08T21:26:00.000-06:002008-03-08T21:26:00.000-06:00Aaarrgghh! I missed it. I was thinking the 20/20 s...Aaarrgghh! I missed it. I was thinking the 20/20 show would be the 14th. Here's a link to the <A HREF="http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=4408157&page=1" REL="nofollow">20/20 transcript</A>.Christa Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-64929878188225227062008-03-08T20:20:00.000-06:002008-03-08T20:20:00.000-06:00Anyone see 20/20 last night?Anyone see 20/20 last night?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-8432280480335995452008-02-27T13:12:00.000-06:002008-02-27T13:12:00.000-06:00Anonymous: A separate organization that is trying ...Anonymous: A separate organization that is trying to get a Congressional investigation of clergy sex abuse in religious institutions is <A HREF="http://www.amatteroftruth.org/index.html" REL="nofollow">A Matter of Truth</A>. Among other things, they have a <A HREF="http://www.amatteroftruth.org/02Petition/2.html" REL="nofollow">petition</A> for people to sign.Christa Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-10181704376791391632008-02-27T12:46:00.000-06:002008-02-27T12:46:00.000-06:00If Congress is going to investigate Roger Clemens ...If Congress is going to investigate Roger Clemens about steroid use, maybe they could investigate clergy sexual abuse and collusion in the SBC church system. I think the clergy abuse is more important than an athlete and his performance in sports.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-42543641785902718362008-02-26T10:52:00.000-06:002008-02-26T10:52:00.000-06:00GetYourFactsStraight wrote this:"The fault lies wi...GetYourFactsStraight wrote this:<BR/>"The fault lies with the churches and organizations he worked at SOLELY. Baptist associations to various conventions are associations in the fact that a church gives money to one or the other to help support it. Beyond that, there is not much that they have to do with one another, especially in church polity or authority."<BR/><BR/>And that is precisely why the whole organization is at fault. Handing money back and forth is a transaction of wealth and power. You are clearly saying that money is handed back and forth WITHOUT ANY DUE PROCESS OF ACCOUNTABILITY CHECKING. That's bad ethics and bad business.<BR/><BR/>In any other philanthropy or business, when money is passed to one's fellows on word of mouth agreement only, without accountability or traceability, the transaction is described as a kickback, bribe, or payoff. It is unethical.<BR/><BR/>The people in church A have inadvertently given money to the people in church B where a sexual predator is in office. The people in church A ARE responsible to with hold money and demand an account from church B. Church A's money is empowering Church B to continue in sheltering a predator.<BR/><BR/>Go read your Bible. You will find that no churches participated in the porous, accountability-free system that the SBC/IFB employ.Jerihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14234147722462126392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-23041963170788080932008-02-26T10:18:00.000-06:002008-02-26T10:18:00.000-06:00TexasPastor: You have spoken strong words - good w...TexasPastor: You have spoken strong words - good words - true words. Thank you. Amen.Christa Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-71241752849724083672008-02-26T10:14:00.000-06:002008-02-26T10:14:00.000-06:00getyourfacts: Well...I can't help but see some hum...getyourfacts: Well...I can't help but see some humor in your criticism that I didn't go after the Southern Baptist Convention on this one. Gee...I thought I'd been plenty vocal with my criticism of the SBC on the clergy abuse issue, but guess I should ratchet it up a bit. I've also written plenty on church polity and autonomy. Anyone who's interested can find a starting place for more info <A HREF="http://www.stopbaptistpredators.org/autonomy.html" REL="nofollow">here</A>. <BR/><BR/>I think the BGCT would likely be the first to confirm that there is indeed a connection between the BGCT and Baylor. I suspect they're proud of that connection (and rightfully so on other grounds). In any event, it's certainly more than just scholarship money. The BGCT's 2008 budget shows $2,388,256 going directly to Baylor, and that doesn't count the additional $3,516,444 for theological education, which presumably would include funds for the Truett theological seminary at Baylor. It also doesn't include the additional $4,081,715 for collegiate ministries, which presumably would include the salary that the BGCT funded for Baker's position as student ministries director at Schreiner. (If even the hiring personnel for a BGCT-funded position can't find out about prior sexual abuse allegations in one of the BGCT's own affiliated churches (or about the fact that he was fired from the YMCA), why does anyone imagine that the churches themselves will be able to do any better at tracking back and finding out about prior abuse reports against a minister?)Christa Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-63650398712899502802008-02-26T09:40:00.000-06:002008-02-26T09:40:00.000-06:00Phyllis, thank you so much for the words that you ...Phyllis, thank you so much for the words that you wrote. I want you to know that there are those of us who are working to do exactly what you have said in our own local churches. As I have stated before, I am a survivor of Southern Baptist clergy abuse myself and have led the way in my own church to safeguard children from predators. I am very proud of the level of awareness that our church has reached and believe that we are also beginning to bring the issue to light within our community. One can never grow complacent on this front, however. There is always work to be done in maintaining awareness and safeguards as well as continuing to implement more effective means of protection as they become available. <BR/><BR/>As for the national situation within the SBC. Let me say, first of all, that I am for a national registry of convicted and credibly accused SBC offenders. I fully believe that the issue of autonomy has been made one of convenience, and every chance I get I voice these concerns to those in Nashville and in Dallas (we are a BGCT church). Even though it appears that they are presently turning a deaf ear to our concerns, my hope and prayer is that persistence will pay off in the end. <BR/><BR/>The point is that we must keep the issue alive. After all, if Frank Page is not willing to be the agent of change, there is always a new election coming in June. Unfortunately, the problem is more entrenced than that and just influencing the elected leaders is not sufficient. We need real change, beginning with the Executive Committee and its counsel, Mr. Boto. That would at least be a start.<BR/><BR/>Finally, let me assure you that Paige Patterson and his cohorts do not speak for me. There are those of us within the SBC who have not yet checked our brains at the door nor have we drunk the kool-aid.<BR/><BR/>Thank you for your concerns. Press on.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-32303354602277765662008-02-26T09:32:00.000-06:002008-02-26T09:32:00.000-06:00Why is it you single out only the BGCT affiliation...Why is it you single out only the BGCT affiliation of these churches. Why haven't you mentioned the SBC, the BWA, the Waco Baptist Assocation, or any other affiliations of these churches? <BR/><BR/>"Every step of the way..." Matt was affiliated with the church he was at, not the BGCT, SBC, or anyone else. The BGCT has no authority in the church. Were those churches to report Matt to the BGCT, that information would be made available to any church or baptist organization that requests it in hiring him. If the next church calls the BGCT to ask then he wouldn't be hired. And that is only IF he had been reported by the churches. The churches should have reported it to the police, just as Baylor should have.<BR/><BR/>I don't see the connection between the BGCT and Baylor. What does the BGCT providing scholarships to Baylor students have to do with Baylor and a sexual assault case? BGCT has no more responsibility or association with that than does any other scholarship provider for the university.<BR/><BR/>Obviously First Baptist Waco didn't report him, and who knows if anyone else did. So I don't see where you can find fault with the conventions or reason to just single out the BGCT and leave out all the other affiliations and conventions of the churches. If you are going to attack them, attack all of them, not just one that suits your interests.<BR/><BR/>The fault lies with the churches and organizations he worked at SOLELY. Baptist associations to various conventions are associations in the fact that a church gives money to one or the other to help support it. Beyond that, there is not much that they have to do with one another, especially in church polity or authority.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-22019657374114253872008-02-26T08:31:00.000-06:002008-02-26T08:31:00.000-06:00Jeri: Thank you for such clarity of thought and su...Jeri: Thank you for such clarity of thought and such true words. "The porous, ultra-decentralized, anti-accountability structure of the SBC and IFB have everything to do with these abuses, for they protect a system in which the least...have no appeal and no recourse to just investigation into abuses."Christa Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-35067988094557319242008-02-26T05:05:00.000-06:002008-02-26T05:05:00.000-06:00Actually, there is no such thing as "the Baptist F...Actually, there is no such thing as "the Baptist Faith," although some Baptists think that there is. There is the Christian faith, or more appropriately, faith in Jesus Christ. And the Baptist denominations are those groups that have recognized certain key ideas that they think are essential enough to prompt them to have a fellowship together.<BR/><BR/>The fact is, several of these Baptist denominations have embraced lack of accountability and a governing structure that is NOT, in fact, Biblical, and that is indefensible.<BR/><BR/>The porous, ultra-decentralized, anti-accountability structure of the SBC and IFB have everything to do with these abuses, for they protect a system in which the least members of Christ's church (those who are the basis of His judgment on the mighty) have no appeal and no recourse to just investigation into abuses. Yes, it is appropriate to fault the radical autonomy and permissiveness of Baptist church polity. It is exactly at fault in these abuse cases.Jerihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14234147722462126392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-14602542701780213522008-02-25T20:56:00.000-06:002008-02-25T20:56:00.000-06:00I wonder how this case went from a murder case to ...I wonder how this case went from a murder case to a child-abuser? No where has there ever been mentioned that Matt Baker MIGHT have had any relationship with a minor. Yes, when he was a teen, or young twenty something, there might have been some peer situations. But to go to minor age children, that is a far reaching lie. And, I do NOT believe the Baptist faith has anything to do with any part of this case. I think it will come down to whether Kari was suicidal or not, and whether there are facts that Matt might have had anything to do with the death. Any of the 10+ year old issues, even IF they are true, does not enter into this case.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-48846195859051827472008-02-25T19:59:00.000-06:002008-02-25T19:59:00.000-06:00There are quite a few Baptist pastors who have add...There are quite a few Baptist pastors who have addressed issues on Christa's blog. You seem angry, upset, saddened, by all the sexual abuse by SBC clergy horror stories that are told, but you still seem at a loss as to what to do. Is it possible, and I am addressing any SBC pastor who reads this blog, that you can make changes in your own church in your own way that will at least protect all the children in your church -- no matter what Paige Patterson and any of the ones at the top have to say. Is it possible that you can bring about change that way? Can you say to hell with the ones at the Baptist Vatican in Nashville who somehow seem to make the rules that are carried out all the way down to the local church. If SBC churches are truly autonomous, I would think you can do it anyway you want to in your church for your people that would pleasing to the Lord.<BR/><BR/>Just a thought.<BR/>Phyllis GregoryAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-74281186743032571562008-02-24T19:29:00.000-06:002008-02-24T19:29:00.000-06:00Tim: Welcome. If you want to help, a good starting...Tim: Welcome. If you want to help, a good starting place would be to write to the Baptist General Convention of Texas and tell them to make public the names of ministers in their secret file for whom there is "substantial evidence" of having sexually abused kids. People in the pews should be warned. See my note in the top of the right column on this blog-site. You could also write to the <A HREF="http://www.stopbaptistpredators.org/SBCexecutivecommittee.html" REL="nofollow">Bylaws workgroup</A> of the SBC Executive Committee, which is the SBC group that is supposed to be addressing the problem.<BR/><BR/>Most clergy abuse victims cannot have criminal charges prosecuted because the nature of the psychological trauma is such that, by the time they are able to speak of it, too much time has passed. This is why so many other faith groups have implemented review boards for assessing the credibility of clergy abuse reports. Baptists need to do something similar, at least for the sake of warning people.Christa Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-14207158850867523692008-02-24T19:11:00.000-06:002008-02-24T19:11:00.000-06:00I as a Baptist Pastor DESPISE SUCH actions and pro...I as a Baptist Pastor DESPISE SUCH actions and promise to do all I can to both expose and expel these perverts and encourage the victims to press charges to the fullest extent. I also wish to encourage the victims and the deceived to walk with the Lord and to not lose focus on God.Warning and hope from a lighthousehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00200073476675322181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-46883824734749420372008-02-23T22:39:00.000-06:002008-02-23T22:39:00.000-06:00This guy has had eleven accusations, according to ...This guy has had eleven accusations, according to the TM article. ELEVEN! All those girls are not lying. As more national news comes out about this case, one must wonder how many MORE victims will feel they have a duty to come forth? I pray they will be emboldened to step forward.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-53178740394326631742008-02-23T12:28:00.000-06:002008-02-23T12:28:00.000-06:00Although CPS was alerted to his sexual abuse of wo...Although CPS was alerted to his sexual abuse of women, his penchant for online pornography, and the very real chance that he murdered is wife, this organization established to protect children said he was a fit father. His daughters are still with him. This man, and others like him, must be stopped.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-54323776156065557542008-02-23T11:51:00.000-06:002008-02-23T11:51:00.000-06:00This is so horrible. I wonder what excuses the Ba...This is so horrible. I wonder what excuses the Baptist General Convention is making this time. If the church doesn't do something about inappropriate clergy sexual behavior, how can we expect the world to take action?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com