tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post1402347593885411485..comments2024-03-17T16:21:14.907-05:00Comments on Stop Baptist Predators: No "Christian ethics" for me, pleaseChrista Brownhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comBlogger52125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-75438883437346843812009-10-17T19:42:46.471-05:002009-10-17T19:42:46.471-05:00Stop So. Baptist's Lawyers too Crista...they a...Stop So. Baptist's Lawyers too Crista...they are often advising the leadership in SBC.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-9709281249955538722009-10-17T18:33:07.377-05:002009-10-17T18:33:07.377-05:00Off Topic:
Blogger Buzz > Keeping Your Blog Se...Off Topic:<br /><br /><a href="http://buzz.blogger.com/2009/10/keeping-your-blog-secure_09.html" rel="nofollow">Blogger Buzz > Keeping Your Blog Secure</a>.<br /><i>While October is to many a month of candy and costumes, it also happens to be National Cyber Security Awareness Month in the U.S. In that spirit, we thought we'd take a minute to look at a few different things you can do to make sure both your content and account are secure on Blogger.</i>Rameshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09728392311602332613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-35199850245080729502009-10-17T14:12:35.327-05:002009-10-17T14:12:35.327-05:00it's inconsistent and doesn't make sense t...<i>it's inconsistent and doesn't make sense that churches are kicked out for seeming to tolerate certain sins, yet "autonomy" is suddenly used as an excuse to keep churches in who have harbored a child molestor.</i> <br /><br />I totally and completely agree. I would further add that in my most humble opinion I don't think there should be a statute of limitations on child molesters. If you do it, you should have to live for the rest of your life with the knowledge that you could still go to jail for it.Joe Blackmonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05609279285784683781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-75270154618837268652009-10-17T12:06:27.086-05:002009-10-17T12:06:27.086-05:00I'm glad you said the church that had a pastor...I'm glad you said the church that had a pastor who covered up for the pedophile and kept the pastor should be disfellowshipped, Joe. Like Christa and Jim have said, it's inconsistent and doesn't make sense that churches are kicked out for seeming to tolerate certain sins, yet "autonomy" is suddenly used as an excuse to keep churches in who have harbored a child molestor.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14764962887542099106noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-2083861306564177262009-10-17T11:28:06.525-05:002009-10-17T11:28:06.525-05:00Joe, the issue being discussed here is not whether...<i>Joe, the issue being discussed here is not whether sexual orientation should be a consideration of church membership.</i> <br /><br />Actually, you made it an issue. You brought it up. Thanks. And again, since you said it thereby making it fair game for rebuttal, Christians recognize that homosexuality is a choice and therefore not an orientation.<br /><br />If a church had a pastor, oh let's just make up a name, err, umm, Steve Losses of Bell-look Baptist Church and that pastor kept a staff member employed after he had found out that said staff member had mollested a child or commited other sexual sins and that pastor and the staff member were not fired then it should be assumed that the church approved of what the pastor did and the church should be disfellowshipped.Joe Blackmonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05609279285784683781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-39555085056567913902009-10-16T21:41:08.758-05:002009-10-16T21:41:08.758-05:00A few of my own prior columns on this inconsistenc...A few of my own prior columns on this inconsistency among Southern Baptist leaders:<br /><a href="http://www.ethicsdaily.com/news.php?viewStory=8174" rel="nofollow">Baptist autonomy ignored in investigating gays, but not clergy child molesters</a><br /><br /><a href="http://stopbaptistpredators.blogspot.com/2009/06/kicking-out-gays-but-keeping-clergy.html" rel="nofollow">Kicking out gays but keeping clergy-perps</a><br /><br /><a href="http://stopbaptistpredators.blogspot.com/2009/02/autonomy-schmonomy.html" rel="nofollow">Autonomy Schmonomy</a>Christa Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-16434310497272984402009-10-16T20:56:59.245-05:002009-10-16T20:56:59.245-05:00Joe, the issue being discussed here is not whether...Joe, the issue being discussed here is not whether sexual orientation should be a consideration of church membership. We are discussing SBC willingness to disfellowship churches which support/accept some practice otherwise condemned by the Convention, yet will not apply that same discipline to deal with child rapists. It appears that in the SBC, having a female pastor or ministering to openly gay members is unacceptable, while allowing child rapists and other sexual abusers to continue in pulpits and on church staffs is accepted and protected. Help me understand in what universe that makes sense?Jimnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-84752565100423872522009-10-16T15:57:50.195-05:002009-10-16T15:57:50.195-05:00if they refuse to discriminate against members bas...<i>if they refuse to discriminate against members based on sexual orientation </i><br /><br />Oh, you mean if they follow what the bible clearly teaches and refuse to allow a practicing homosexual to become a member or begin church discipline against a church member who refuses to repent of that sexual sin. Because, since they'd be following the clear <b>Biblical</b> model it isnt' discrimination. And since it's a <b>choice</b> it isn't a orientation, thank you very much.<br /><br />They should also disfellowship churches if it is shown that they or their leadership did, in fact, habor a pediphile or help cover it up. The only defense for a church should be them firing the leadership who covered up (in these cases, it looks like senior pastors are the ones doing that). Otherwise, it should be assumed the church was ok with what he did.Joe Blackmonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05609279285784683781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-44929366625540621632009-10-16T15:54:49.679-05:002009-10-16T15:54:49.679-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Joe Blackmonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05609279285784683781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-26868465794080105282009-10-15T17:38:39.307-05:002009-10-15T17:38:39.307-05:00"...why are so many not prosecuted?"
Be..."...why are so many not prosecuted?"<br /><br />Because, by its very nature, sexual abuse is a crime that silences its victim. That is an extremely common and very significant component of the psychological damage. By the time the child grows up and becomes psychologically capable of dealing with the trauma of it, the statute of limitations for criminal prosecution has usually run.<br /><br />Interestingly, contrary to what many might expect, some studies suggest that adolescent abuse victims may be even less likely to disclose than younger children. Researchers suggest that this is because younger victims sometimes "disclose accidentally"... i.e., they inadvertently say something that raises the suspicion of a parent and the parent then brings the case to light in time to have it criminally prosecuted. By contrast, adolescent victims are better at keeping their mouths shut, and even in the rare case where an adolescent victim may begin to think they might want to say something, they are also better at predicting what the likely reaction of people around them will be (i.e., the blame-the-victim reaction)... and that too serves to keep them silent. And victims who stay silent, which they usually do, internalize a huge weight of shame, self-blame and trauma... trauma that is left untreated. And they are usually incapable of reprocessing and dealing with that trauma until much later in life... at which time it is usually too late for criminal prosecution.Christa Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-62368674547088342072009-10-15T12:17:56.422-05:002009-10-15T12:17:56.422-05:00"I certainly agree that people should call th..."I certainly agree that people should call the police. Absolutely. However, it is also critical that there be other avenues for imposing accountability on clergy in addition to the criminal justice system. Why? Because about 90 percent of child molestation cases CANNOT be criminally prosecuted. "<br /><br />Except for the ones who do not speak out later, why are so many not prosecuted? Is it because a child cannot articulate what happened to them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-47648158675766602942009-10-14T22:19:49.780-05:002009-10-14T22:19:49.780-05:00"Just call the police."
I certainly agr...<i>"Just call the police."</i><br /><br />I certainly agree that people should call the police. Absolutely. However, it is also critical that there be other avenues for imposing accountability on clergy in addition to the criminal justice system. Why? Because about 90 percent of child molestation cases CANNOT be criminally prosecuted. This is why most other major faith groups have denominational review boards to assess clergy abuse reports. Even if such review boards cannot put credibly-accused clergy-perpetrators in prison, they can at least take away the weapon of high trust that they carry as a minister. And for Baptists, we have actually requested that they do LESS than what other major faith groups do. We haven't asked that denominational entities remove men from ministry. Rather, we have simply asked that the denomination create a review board to objectively and responsibly assess abuse reports and to inform local congregations of assessment determinations.Christa Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-57711335935982111732009-10-14T21:14:43.914-05:002009-10-14T21:14:43.914-05:00They are afraid to admit anything because of liabi...They are afraid to admit anything because of liability.<br /><br />"It always amazed me how the SBC could find people who were outsyanding in their respective fields to buy into a questionable agenda."<br /><br />This is EXACTLY why Peacemakers has so little credibility in certain circles. Some churches brought them in to handle some situations and they side with the churches and come to find out they get lots of donations from these celebrity pastors and their friends. Not to mention speaking gigs and conferences. <br /><br />If a church asks you to mediate your conflict with Peacemakers, beware. they do not want to upset the churches too much because they are a source for donations.<br /><br />One place this was evident was at the SGM churches over some abuse situations.<br /><br />Just call the police.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-56183077481966820462009-10-14T17:07:05.941-05:002009-10-14T17:07:05.941-05:00The SBC, made up of locally autonomous churches, i...The SBC, made up of locally autonomous churches, is not reluctant to disfellowship some of those churches if they "call" a female pastor or if they refuse to discriminate against members based on sexual orientation. Yet, taking identical action against congregations which cover-up, protect and over-look child sexual abusers is too difficult. Yeah. Right! I have come to believe the leadership of the SBC and some mega church pastors are protecting one another. From what? I'm not sure, but I don't think it is very pretty. If we keep digging we will find out why they are afraid to shine a light on their sexual abuser colleagues. Is it reasonable to believe they are afraid the light might just be a mirror?Jimnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-58403652460220866092009-10-14T11:02:27.942-05:002009-10-14T11:02:27.942-05:00An independant board is a great idea. I don't...An independant board is a great idea. I don't see it hapenning in the SBC. Maybe on a local association level but even then I'm not sure that it would work. But yes, something needs to be done to examine charges to see if they are true or false.Joe Blackmonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05609279285784683781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-16869918993359435072009-10-13T21:40:56.466-05:002009-10-13T21:40:56.466-05:00Good evening ladies and all pastor haters around t...Good evening ladies and all pastor haters around the country.<br /><br />If you want pastors to be accountable to some board then go join the Methodist church. It ain't gonna happen in a Baptist church.<br /><br />Sleep tight girls. I'll be sure to post something for your enjoyment in the morning.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-3128952612737631622009-10-13T21:17:24.580-05:002009-10-13T21:17:24.580-05:00gmommy,
You are correct when you say it should be ...gmommy,<br />You are correct when you say it should be filled with outside professionals. This is the catch. The SBC even when they agree not to use pastors still want cotroll and will find their own professionals to do their work. It always amazed me how the SBC could find people who were outsyanding in their respective fields to buy into a questionable agenda.<br />Another problem is the massive egos of so many pastors. They run their churches this way as well. They declare themselves to be experts in the fields of finance, building, education, politics, etc. If challenged they hide behind the claim that it is God's work, they are God's man, therfore God must have equiped themwith perfect knowledge. <br />When it comes to the criminal element in te pulpits I am sure they believe that their way of taking care of the perps is both God inspired and above the courts in the land.<br />There is nothing in the Bible to back up such a position but they insist on taking it anyway. <br />Gmommy, it will take people like you ,Christa, and other very insightful women to help raise the awarness of how this situation has gone amuck. If enough good women and secure men can come togeter and continue to push for justice I believe truth and justice will win out.johnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-25907121602092413012009-10-13T18:20:07.151-05:002009-10-13T18:20:07.151-05:00John,
The board needs to be filled by outside pro...John,<br /> The board needs to be filled by outside professionals not other ministers. I've experienced what it's like to have a board filled by ministers or deacons. <br /><br />You know...I don't know how there could be a board that wasn't rigged against the victim if the SBC people have anything to do with it. More and more I see how the Baptist don't mind coming right under the radar rather than being above reproach. They get to hide behind their autonomy on this too. Reminds me of when the deacon officer explained to me why they didn't HAVE to report that PW was a child molester. My question was why would church leaders WANT to just get by the law when it comes to a child molester?????gmommyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11713588262748876624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-64693835621157981872009-10-13T17:18:35.529-05:002009-10-13T17:18:35.529-05:00The problem with such a board in the SBC right now...The problem with such a board in the SBC right now is that it would be headed by Page P and other power broker's pupils and worshipers.<br />Ladies, please continue to stand your ground. The very fact that the leaders of the SBC have gone to the trouble to identify you, give you titles [names] and encourage other loyalists to share in their put downs is proof that your message is getting through. When they do not like what someone says, rather than discuss it or handle it in a Christlike manner, they choose to try to destroy the person doing the talking. Good work!!johnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-16897003334734940172009-10-13T13:11:38.287-05:002009-10-13T13:11:38.287-05:00"Shouldn't ministers have a board to repo...<i>"Shouldn't ministers have a board to report to like doctors or even like Real Estate agents????"</i><br /><br />Yes!!!<br />And like teachers, nurses, lawyers, police officers, pharmacists, barbers, etc. etc. etc.<br /><br />The answer is an emphatic yes. Gmommy has hit the nail square on the head.Christa Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-1801492216644396242009-10-13T11:56:48.231-05:002009-10-13T11:56:48.231-05:00"This extremely common and very human dynamic..."This extremely common and very human dynamic is why there must be some sort of outside, professionally-staffed review board to responsibly assess clergy abuse reports and to provide the local congregations with more objective information."<br /><br />I feel so strongly that "outside, professionally staffed" is essential after experiencing the "investigation board" at BBC. <br />The man I spoke with was the one considered "outside" but not only did he have major connections to the big power brokers at BBC but he also had no control over what happened to the information he collected from victims of the clergy sexual predator. <br />The Presbyterians may have done a little better with their outside elders that are brought in when there are problems but they aren't professionals. <br />Shouldn't ministers have a board to report to like doctors or even like Real Estate agents????<br />Makes no sense that ministers have more freedom and less accountability than any other group.gmommyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11713588262748876624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-59114973592308180162009-10-13T11:52:14.007-05:002009-10-13T11:52:14.007-05:00Christa, may I make a suggestion? When angry, imp...Christa, may I make a suggestion? When angry, impotent men, such as anonymous 10:26 a.m., write to attack you rather than contribute to the conversation, ignore them. Let them throw their little tantrums, but forget about them...their observations are not worth the space it takes to respond. Can we all agree not to comment on their attack comments any more; that just deflects to conversation away from the issue of child sexual abuse.Jimnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-4363714530661209472009-10-13T10:57:59.449-05:002009-10-13T10:57:59.449-05:0010:26 is Plano-man again.
I'll go back to del...10:26 is Plano-man again. <br />I'll go back to deleting his stuff soon. Just thought I'd leave a few up so people can see what sort of man has "influential Baptist friends." You'd think some of those "friends" might teach him some civility, wouldn't you?<br /><br />Interesting that he asks about whether we "girls" have husbands, isn't it? I heard that this guy likely had a messy divorce.Christa Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-32120395283597840872009-10-13T10:26:13.465-05:002009-10-13T10:26:13.465-05:00Just checking in before lunch to read a bit more o...Just checking in before lunch to read a bit more of your bigotry.<br /><br />I do notice that the vast majority of blogs are written by women (yours, the one in Memphis, and the Wartburg Women). Perhaps you girls should stay home and pay attention to your wifely duties instead of blogging all the time.<br /><br />Are do all of you still even have husbands??Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-38323252489292839562009-10-13T10:08:40.206-05:002009-10-13T10:08:40.206-05:00"The problem is that decisions are made based...<i>"The problem is that decisions are made based on who they like. Who is 'one of us'.</i><br /><br />And the instant a clergy abuse survivor starts talking, they automatically become THE OTHER. And the much-loved pastor is always automatically "one of us." This extremely common and very human dynamic is why there must be some sort of outside, professionally-staffed review board to responsibly assess clergy abuse reports and to provide the local congregations with more objective information.Christa Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.com