tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post2798257890513257879..comments2024-03-17T16:21:14.907-05:00Comments on Stop Baptist Predators: Autonomy SchmonomyChrista Brownhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-100738242352549692009-02-21T23:40:00.000-06:002009-02-21T23:40:00.000-06:00I don't know where this "local church autonomy" co...I don't know where this "local church autonomy" comes from...all churches are bound by the Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-30100992095054816662009-02-21T23:36:00.000-06:002009-02-21T23:36:00.000-06:00Correction "worth noting concerning Broadway. In s...Correction "worth noting concerning Broadway. In speaking with"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-33019734783648761972009-02-21T22:29:00.000-06:002009-02-21T22:29:00.000-06:00There are some things worth notig aconcerning Broa...There are some things worth notig aconcerning Broadway. I speaking with a member over a year ago from that church they mentioned that the liberal leadership was constantly overstepping their boundaries and utilizing their "authority" to get enforce their policies. Several members began to leave. It was a church held hostage. It was recommended to bring in other ministers to confront the problem but members instead left. They really should not be excommunicated but leaders kicked out.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-61314778245781103712009-02-21T14:14:00.000-06:002009-02-21T14:14:00.000-06:00"to relay information about their assessment to pe..."to relay information about their assessment to people in the pews"<BR/><BR/>Christa, thanks for keeping us focused on our true goal. We cannot afford to get bogged down with arguments about women in the ministry, homosexuals, etc. It is my understanding that we want to encourage a review system that will provide information to all religious leaders and menbers that will in turn offer some degree of protection as well as an effective reporting system for victims. <BR/>It is possible that if a church refused to dismiss a sex perp that the Association, State Convention, and the SBC could refuse that chiurch membership in their particular body. This would be an effective warning to the community as this type of action is always news worthy.<BR/>There is a hugh job to be done and I believe by encouraging our leaders and staying focused ourselves we will see progress.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-35888185402807887962009-02-21T10:32:00.000-06:002009-02-21T10:32:00.000-06:00"So if these things are known, why do these church...<I>"So if these things are known, why do these churches not remove these guys?"</I> <BR/><BR/>Churches are not capable of objectively assessing clergy sex abuse reports related to their own ministers. They find ways to deny, to minimize, to not see it, to not know. They find ways to demonize the messenger who brings such unwelcome news. We've seen the pattern over and over again, in big churches and small, in city churches and rural churches, in churches with highly-educated congregations, in churches with highly affluent congregations, etc. etc. It's the human instinct for denial in the face of evil... particularly when the evil deeds involve a person you trust and love.<BR/><BR/>The SBC obviously has the power and the will to conduct "inquiries" about local churches when it wants to. <I>Even if</I> the SBC can't actually remove credibly-accused abusive pastors from ministry (as other faith groups do), the SBC could at least provide local churches with the resource of an independent, professionally trained review board to objectively assess clergy abuse reports and to relay information about their assessment to people in the pews.Christa Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-86857948578300559512009-02-21T10:08:00.000-06:002009-02-21T10:08:00.000-06:00Likewise, in the case of a church that has an abus...Likewise, in the case of a church that has an abuser still serving as a pastor, the SBC has no authority to remove him, but the local church does. So if these things are known, why do these churches not remove these guys?<BR/><BR/>February 21, 2009 8:05 AM<BR/><BR/>That is not the point, Lee. The associations have removed churches for having women ministers. But they are NOT removing churches for ministers and staff who rape boys and girls.<BR/><BR/>Why?Lydiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17367390474045060624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-13129652432245469882009-02-21T08:05:00.000-06:002009-02-21T08:05:00.000-06:00The ultimate end to the investigation of Broadway ...The ultimate end to the investigation of Broadway Baptist Church will be that the church will either remain with the SBC or its ties to the convention will be severed. It is the church itself that has the authority to do whatever it chooses to do with regard to its five gay members. <BR/><BR/>Likewise, in the case of a church that has an abuser still serving as a pastor, the SBC has no authority to remove him, but the local church does. So if these things are known, why do these churches not remove these guys?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-76305691365009341462009-02-20T20:02:00.000-06:002009-02-20T20:02:00.000-06:00Yes, they are dull headed indeed. Why they don't ...Yes, they are dull headed indeed. Why they don't they look at the stats again that show that close to 70 percent of homosexuals were abused by someone in authority...I think by also recently reading several of the leaders views on tithing that they are straying from the the premise of grace anyway....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-62491557367250885892009-02-20T09:51:00.000-06:002009-02-20T09:51:00.000-06:00You're right, gwfrink3, it's "Batholic" fundamenta...You're right, gwfrink3, it's "Batholic" fundamentalism on the rise. (Great word, by the way) By its very nature, fundamentalism INSISTS on its own rightness. So we see their doctrinal inquiries and demands for rigid conformity. So great is their authoritarian insistence on rightness that they demand of clergy abuse survivors that they ignore the very reality of their own experience for the sake of deferring to the authority of denominational leaders and pastoral power. We are banished. In effect, we are the dead bodies of this Batholic cabal, and they prefer that we stay buried.<BR/><BR/>It's bizarre, isn't it? If you look to the deeds of most Baptist leaders, including even many who self-describe as "moderates," I think you have to conclude that they consider it worse to have a gay person in the denominational family than to have a clergy child molester in the family. There's nothing biblical about it.Christa Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-78271673847663139962009-02-20T08:49:00.000-06:002009-02-20T08:49:00.000-06:00And to think you might actually have a gay person ...And to think you might actually have a gay person in your family--or even worse pedophiles actually are part of someone's family.<BR/><BR/>Its time we got Biblical in some of our attitudes.Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09164175774899045170noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-54381181467651451392009-02-20T03:40:00.000-06:002009-02-20T03:40:00.000-06:00Broadway Baptist Church may have some vanishingly ...Broadway Baptist Church may have some vanishingly faint <A HREF="http://baptistplanet.wordpress.com/2009/02/18/broadway-baptist-churchs-hope/" REL="nofollow">hope</A> of somehow being found to be "acceptable," whereas even well-earned <A HREF="http://www.abpnews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3719&Itemid=53" REL="nofollow">international humiliation</A> has not moved the Southern Baptist Convention hierarchy. <BR/>Is it not all so very <A HREF="http://baptistplanet.wordpress.com/2008/11/16/batholics-and-cathists-rise-again/" REL="nofollow">Batholic</A> with its new canon law on the one hand and thundering silence on the other.George Frinkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03777560751557908655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-33607487673061701712009-02-19T16:06:00.000-06:002009-02-19T16:06:00.000-06:00Can you say Ted Haggard? No, he is not baptist but...Can you say Ted Haggard? No, he is not baptist but more common of what is out there posing as a pastor these days.<BR/><BR/>Yes, they do have selective autonomy. Here is the reason: A homosexual offends them more than a pervert who rapes young girls. It is that simple. <BR/><BR/>LydiaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-3424825409532823932009-02-19T12:17:00.000-06:002009-02-19T12:17:00.000-06:00Gmommy knows of what she speaks, having seen up cl...Gmommy knows of what she speaks, having seen up close what happened at a flagship Southern Baptist church in Tennessee. At <A HREF="http://stopbaptistpredators.org/scandals/bellevue" REL="nofollow">Bellevue Baptist</A>, senior pastor Steve Gaines knew about another minister's sexual abuse of a kid, and yet Gaines kept quiet about it until news about it finally broke in a blog and then in other media. Not only did Gaines keep quiet, but he even allowed the perp to serve as a counselor to people who had been sexually abused by others. Can you imagine how a person sexually abused in childhood would feel when they learn that the minister who counseled them as an adult was also a pedophile? And that their senior pastor knew about it and allowed him to counsel child molestation victims anyway? It's abhorrent, and yet Gaines remains widely respected within the SBC and even speaks at pastor conferences. Why doesn't the SBC Executive Committee treat Gaines' act of keeping quiet about clergy child molestation as an act that implicity "affirmed" clergy child molestation? Why don't they conduct "inquiries" on him and his church? Isn't the church itself implicitly acting in a way that "affirms" clergy child molestation by keeping a man like Gaines as senior pastor?Christa Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-55887510208145081992009-02-19T09:10:00.000-06:002009-02-19T09:10:00.000-06:00W, My guess is that you would be more outraged by ...W,<BR/> My guess is that you would be more outraged by God's most vulnerable being abused by clergy than many members of a Baptist congregation.<BR/><BR/>My friends and I have tried very hard to keep child molester and homosexual separate...but some are too ignorant.gmommyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11713588262748876624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-54602140483737363992009-02-19T07:51:00.000-06:002009-02-19T07:51:00.000-06:00W: Welcome here! "Selective autonomy" - such an ap...W: Welcome here! "Selective autonomy" - such an apt phrase to describe what the SBC does.Christa Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-36338377611236797912009-02-19T07:39:00.000-06:002009-02-19T07:39:00.000-06:00EVERY Baptist church has gay members whether they ...EVERY Baptist church has gay members whether they know it or not or whether they acknowledge it or not. Many have gay staff members and they are actually human beings with feelings and contribute to the Kingdom of God. Just another example of the SBC's total lack of understanding of reality. <BR/><BR/>There is a huge difference in being gay and being a child molester. Maybe someone needs to have a class on sex education for the Executive Committee. While they are it, maybe they could teach them what autonomous actually means. In reality they practice "selective autonomy" which is a hypocritical joke.<BR/><BR/>I am gay and I understand your feelings...Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09164175774899045170noreply@blogger.com