tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post7412905672837853163..comments2024-03-17T16:21:14.907-05:00Comments on Stop Baptist Predators: Jezebel rantChrista Brownhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comBlogger46125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-24909254293019292692009-12-10T13:19:14.971-06:002009-12-10T13:19:14.971-06:00I wonder if Mr. Gaines finds it ironic that all th...I wonder if Mr. Gaines finds it ironic that all this power--i.e. men following women down the road of supposed sin, women causing every problem--is ascribed to women, and portrays men as virtually powerless against the onslaught of women's evil ways, as though the men have no minds of their own.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-12968089878892802142009-12-04T18:27:00.185-06:002009-12-04T18:27:00.185-06:00I think we should all go and look at how Gaines...I think we should all go and look at how Gaines' daughter dresses so we can know he approves of the same Jezebel's in his own home but not when it is other women.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-2141228026715975112009-12-03T19:13:56.741-06:002009-12-03T19:13:56.741-06:00I think all we need do is go back to the "Ran...I think all we need do is go back to the "Rant" above and see where for a lot of men it is the woman's fault when he fails but the poor little man is just sowing his oats or just being a male. How stupid, shallow, and irresponsible this type of preaching or beliving is!johnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-68082595220554663712009-12-03T11:37:33.587-06:002009-12-03T11:37:33.587-06:00Gmommy: I just saw this article, which you might f...Gmommy: I just saw <a href="http://sports.yahoo.com/golf/blog/devil_ball_golf/post/Golfer-who-introduced-Elin-to-Tiger-tees-off-on-?urn=golf,206465" rel="nofollow">this article,</a> which you might find of interest. The golfer who introduced his family's nanny, Elin, to Tiger Woods said, "I would probably need to apologize to her and hope she uses a driver next time instead of the 3-iron."Christa Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-24196876036790601342009-12-03T11:35:29.914-06:002009-12-03T11:35:29.914-06:00“I don't think all men and all women process l...<i>“I don't think all men and all women process life in the same ways.”</i><br /><br />I agree. I haven’t followed the Tiger Woods case, but generally, I seldom think that celebrity cases provide many “lessons.” So I don’t think there is much to be learned about “gender equality” in the Tiger Woods scenario.<br /><br />I have no clue what the motivation of Woods’ wife was in wielding the golf club – and from what I’ve seen, I don’t think anyone else does either. But this much I know: For many decades, countless men have gotten away with “crimes of passion.” Historically, that’s what it has often been called when a man assaults or even murders his wife while in a fit of rage upon learning of her infidelity. Society and the law have typically viewed it as a form of temporary insanity. I’m not saying it’s right. It never has been. But it’s a defense that has been widely accepted. <br /><br />Part of what makes me so uneasy with so much of the speculation on the Tiger Woods case – and it IS speculation - is the simple fact that it’s just too easy for golf fans and those who idolize celebrities to take the side of their hero. I’m not saying that people do it consciously – I think it’s mostly subconscious – which is what makes it all the more insidious.<br /><br />And let’s remember that Woods’ wife was working as a nanny when she met him. That fact alone probably says a lot about the enormous power differential between the two of them. And of course, that’s typical. Women are usually the ones who are in positions of lesser power, lesser income, lesser resources, lesser experience, and lesser influence.<br /><br />I think it is a mistake for anyone to imagine that an investigation of Woods’ wife on possible assault charges would be “a sign that our culture is beginning to understand gender equality.” If people want to understand “gender equality” – and <i>inequality</i> – they should look to the larger systemic patterns rather than to the case of a celebrity golfer.<br /><br />All across the country, far too many women are habitually battered by their spouses. And far too many women have to struggle to get protective orders enforced. And far too many women, who are already in roles of utter powerlessness, hear preachers tell them that love of God and biblical authority demand their “submission.” It’s an impossible double-bind for many, many women.<br /><br />Meanwhile . . . over at the <a href="http://www.abpnews.com/content/view/4601/53/" rel="nofollow">Associated Baptist Press,</a> in comments to an article about a Southern Baptist minister charged with child molestation, “Slick” responds with snideness to someone “WoundedbytheChurch” by saying “oooh…did our little feelings get hurt” and he states his view that an underage girl molested by a pastor was “a willing participant.” Then “Glenn” complains about how “thousands of ministers” have been “wounded by their own churches because of selfish, un-Christlike behaviors” … as if ministers whose careers are “wounded” could possibly be compared to kids who are molested and raped by clergy. Then “Pastor Dave” comes on board to criticize “WoundedbytheChurch” for his anger and “un-Christian” tone, to suggest that he get “Christian counseling” and that he “turn it over” to God, and to say that he’ll pray for him. <br /><br />Sweet, huh? No one in Baptistland has to actually DO anything to help someone “WoundedbytheChurch.” People in Baptistland get to “just leave it in God’s hands” and the denomination still doesn’t do diddly-squat. <br /><br />It’s so much easier for people to speculate about Tiger Woods’ wife, isn’t it?Christa Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-12210946875898647242009-12-02T22:51:53.883-06:002009-12-02T22:51:53.883-06:00This may be the only place I might get another per...This may be the only place I might get another persons prospective without feeling like an idiot.<br />I just read Wade's blog post about the Tiger Woods scandal as it relates to gender equality. <br />My mind isn't as clear as I'd like it to be b/c I have had several nights of the haunting dreams that many here will understand without my trying to explain.<br />These are my questioning thoughts....do men and women respond in the same way emotionally to finding out their spouse has cheated on them???<br />Do men feel like their bodies have been violated?? Is that even the way a "normal" woman would feel?<br />If most "normal" women experience the feeling of betrayal by the one they loved and trusted as a violation to their bodies...can or does a man respond in the same way? <br />Do men feel like they trusted their lives and bodies and all that is "sacred" to their wives and if betrayed, do they feel dirty, mocked,used,demoralized, dehumanized,and violated? Or some of those things? <br /> I don't think all men and all women process life in the same ways. <br />Arrest me...but IF Tiger's wife came after him with a golf club when she discovered under God only knows what circumstances...I hope her aim was good.gmommyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11713588262748876624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-70158185302908707862009-12-02T18:40:28.595-06:002009-12-02T18:40:28.595-06:00"Mega bubbas" - it's a description t..."Mega bubbas" - it's a description that suits a lot of them.<br /><br />They're like the giant blimps you see floating over football stadiums. They look really big when they’re up above us with their messages from on high. But when they get punctured, they’re just a bunch of hot air.Christa Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-117842816289264842009-12-02T16:48:45.075-06:002009-12-02T16:48:45.075-06:00I hope you will consider the "Jezebel rant&qu...I hope you will consider the "Jezebel rant" by "Bubba" Gains or any of the other mega bubbas, as a badge of honor and a testament to your courage. He and his ilk have neither.Jimnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-11580953361040243142009-12-01T08:44:40.767-06:002009-12-01T08:44:40.767-06:00Please note that Donna Gaines, wife of Steve Gaine...Please note that Donna Gaines, wife of Steve Gaines is a member of the task force for Great Commission Resurgence for SBC. BTW she is the only female in the task force.Rameshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09728392311602332613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-19095451229105802822009-11-30T09:34:12.091-06:002009-11-30T09:34:12.091-06:00Jeri: I'm proud to be a member of the same clu...Jeri: I'm proud to be a member of the same club as you - the "I got called a Jezebel by a Baptist preacher" club. :-)<br /><br />Jeri summed it up so well - the basic, underlying philosophy of so many Baptist leaders: <i>"Those in power answer to different rules (or themselves) because they are entitled to do so by their power."</i> That is the very essence of Baptistland.<br /><br />And I could not possibly agree more - the most shocking and disappointing part is "how many people so blindly follow them." It is the silence of the many that always haunts me the most.Christa Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-73079581465197511592009-11-30T04:04:22.210-06:002009-11-30T04:04:22.210-06:00Jezebel herself has definitely gone through some w...Jezebel herself has definitely gone through some whitewashng in modern times. But since we have only the Biblical account, we don't really see that she's all that sexually promiscuous. That distinction came by attachment from her religion of Baal worship, which employed temple prostitutes. <br /><br />But she came from a Phoenician royal family, and without a doubt she chafed under the Israelite system, which tried to put its royal sovereigns under the Law.<br /><br />The kings of Israel/Judah always chafed under this system, except for David, who humbled himself to the Law when he was called down for it. But the Law was ordained without reference to a king, the idea being that everybody was under the same Law.<br /><br />The kings themselves preferred the philosophy of the cultures around them, which put the kings above the laws, as the kings in those cultures were seen as descendants of the gods or at least their chosen favorites. And this war of kings rights vs. the sovereignty of the Law over all people within Israel, continued all the way from Jeroboam to the captivity.<br /><br />Of course this was going to chafe a Phoenician princess like Jezebel, but she may not deserve that much sympathy. She did everything she could to remove this interference from the rights of tyranny that she believed in. She had been raised to think of her class as privileged, and she probably was fighting for herself and her way of life. <br /><br />But she and Ahab were bad through and through. They did kill ordinary people because they insisted that they had an executive right to do so. Jezebel did provide Ahab with the legal counsel and philosophy to dispense with his responsibilities to the Law. <br /><br />I must admit, the fundamentalist hysteria over Jezebel probably owes a lot to fundamentalist misogyny (sp?), but we should avoid letting the pendulum swing the other way too far. As was the tradition among Phoenician royalty (and most royalty in that era), Jezebel believed herself entitled to royal privilege. But we see from the example of the SBC leadership how devastating that is for ordinary people and the rights granted to them under modern law, when leadership exempts itself from the same justice that governs others.<br /><br />I don't blame Jehu for chucking her out a window. She killed the innocent (as did Ahab, and he also died a violent death). But Steve Gaines should remember that God abhorred both the Phoenician queen and the Israelite king who, alike, harmed His people. When God judges sin, He doesn't spare those who harm the innocent, whether they profess Him or some foreign god.Jerihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14234147722462126392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-5704034529144662572009-11-30T03:38:34.899-06:002009-11-30T03:38:34.899-06:00Jezebel was a moral pragmatist whose basic motto w...Jezebel was a moral pragmatist whose basic motto was, "If it's good for me and my power base, then it's right." Centuries later, Cicero argued the same idea, and the idea has come down to us as "reason of state." In short, those who rule answer to a different set of ethics and laws because they have a loftier purpose to protect the ordinary people. <br /><br />For all his denunciation of Jezebel, Gaines embraces the exact same godless and cruel philosophy: those in power answer to different rules (or themselves) because they are entitled to do so by their power.<br /><br />And Christa, welcome to the "I got called a Jezebel by a Baptist Preacher" club. We could probably make t-shirts. The name has been flung at me a lot in the past.<br /><br />I'm not shocked or saddened by the almost open contempt Gaines and his cronies have for the true spirit of Christianity, but I am shocked and disappointed in how many people so blindly follow him/them.Jerihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14234147722462126392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-66637271513980749062009-11-30T00:03:01.945-06:002009-11-30T00:03:01.945-06:00I have a piggy back on those last few comments.
I...I have a piggy back on those last few comments. <br />I broke a rule of mine today. I walked in a Baptist church for the first time in a long time. <br />Besides needing to come out of some isolation, my son made plans on Thanksgiving to visit this local baptist church. I wanted to check out the minister and how they do things and I also wanted to see some sweet friends who had stood by me during the BBC blow up.<br /><br />Anon 9:37 is so right.<br />This is one clip of SG but I was there for months when he became the pastor. Nothing has changed. He rambles, berates, tells stories, and gives his own version of what scripture means...to suit his agenda. He exudes no humility or love that is visible to me. This guy and the likes of Mac in Florida are "the big dogs" in baptist land. They are making the major bucks and get the doors opened for them in all kinds of ways.<br /> The minister I heard speak this morning was so easily a better preacher by far!!!I have no idea the budget or salary of the church today but the minister is not in the "cool club" with these mega pastors. Yet SG and Mac sound like idiots compared to the guy I heard today.<br />It's GOT to be rigged if this is the best these "pulpit committees" can come up with.<br />I emailed the pastor I heard today back when a lot of my BBC friends were going over there and asked him if he found himself with a sexual predator on his staff how would he handle it...and did he think the way SG handled the PW "incident" was appropriate for a pastor.<br />I know words are cheap...and I don't remember hearing that this nice guy confronted SG about the BBC stuff...but he told me that PW would have been fired immediately and that was the only appropriate action a pastor should take in this situation.<br />Bottom line...SG is what they get for all the money they pay and the embarrassment he brought on the church?? THIS is who the good ol boys continue to promote?? <br />I know...autonomy gives them no power to control anything with the individual churches.No protection for those who need it!gmommyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11713588262748876624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-72354797342910700162009-11-29T23:04:20.483-06:002009-11-29T23:04:20.483-06:00"In the 'real world,' fool would'...<i>"In the 'real world,' fool would've run out of town."</i><br /><br />Of course. But in Baptistland, other high honchos praise him and promote him, and people in the pews say "Amen." It's the surreal land of "the chosen" where they pay, pray and obey, and act as though this man is a righteous moral authority.Christa Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-65840544230250804342009-11-29T21:37:19.209-06:002009-11-29T21:37:19.209-06:00"And there are pics of one of his own daughte..."And there are pics of one of his own daughter wearing real tight low cut tops and strapless gowns, one even so low cut down the middle it showed both her breasts. And these were pics from High School!"<br /><br /><br />WOW! Just WOW! Why is this man still a preacher?! Seriously. Can anyone give a legitimate answer here? How can anyone "sit under" his preaching? You gotta be real brainwashed or just an idiot to sit under that mess! Why does Bellevue have even one person show up? I don't get it. In the "real world," fool would've run out of town.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-75196990365710395622009-11-29T13:39:43.018-06:002009-11-29T13:39:43.018-06:00Just found the clip from u tube from Voddie Baucha...Just found the clip from u tube from Voddie Baucham about fathers and daughters, that Lin quoted.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qljgjT2Q4-g&feature" rel="nofollow"> the link </a><br /><br />Now <i> that's </i> a dangerous teaching!Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14764962887542099106noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-85033693056490777582009-11-29T12:59:20.728-06:002009-11-29T12:59:20.728-06:00He is right about the Hollywood women. Absolutely....He is right about the Hollywood women. Absolutely. But he is a total hypocrite to deliver that message. Isn't there a SHRINE in the church to his own wife? Doesn't that SHRINE to his wife showcase her beauty pagents and other worldly adornments??<br /><br />You need to check YOUR OWN HOUSE Gaines!<br /><br />November 29, 2009 12:04 PM<br /><br />Wow, I forgot all about that! You are right! It was showcasing all her beauty pageant stuff! Talk about worldly. <br /><br />And there are pics of one of his own daughter wearing real tight low cut tops and strapless gowns, one even so low cut down the middle it showed both her breasts. And these were pics from High School!So, he cannot use the excuse she was not living under his roof!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-82366083922270973512009-11-29T12:04:21.739-06:002009-11-29T12:04:21.739-06:00He is right about the Hollywood women. Absolutely....He is right about the Hollywood women. Absolutely. But he is a total hypocrite to deliver that message. Isn't there a SHRINE in the church to his own wife? Doesn't that SHRINE to his wife showcase her beauty pagents and other worldly adornments??<br /><br />You need to check YOUR OWN HOUSE Gaines!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-33155498905456597182009-11-29T07:17:15.934-06:002009-11-29T07:17:15.934-06:00BTW: If these men were truly saved, they would not...BTW: If these men were truly saved, they would not have to worry about being enticed by "Jezebels".<br /><br /> Gaines should start there.Linhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04723395060585207854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-69450317625126246872009-11-29T07:14:04.781-06:002009-11-29T07:14:04.781-06:00"You guys seem to be forgetting Vodie Baucum&..."You guys seem to be forgetting Vodie Baucum's message on the role of godly fathers one Wed night at Bellevue. That night everything was up to the father and the whole church stood up and cheered. One week its you guys, the next it is us. In the end we are all horrible examples of human flesh and nobody is getting it right. Except the preacher......."<br /><br />Voddie was one who said that Sarah Palin was outside her role in running for VP. He also teaches that girls do not need to go to college. Only problem is that he allowed his 18 year old to attend a local college.<br /><br />HEre is a quote from Voddie Baucham that is sicko, sicko...<br /><br />““A lot of men are leaving their wives for younger women because they yearn for attention from younger women. And God gave them a daughter who can give them that.””<br /><br />He really said that. If I had time, I would find the youtube video of him saying that.Linhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04723395060585207854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-77266816867554391602009-11-29T00:39:12.295-06:002009-11-29T00:39:12.295-06:00You guys seem to be forgetting Vodie Baucum's ...You guys seem to be forgetting Vodie Baucum's message on the role of godly fathers one Wed night at Bellevue. That night everything was up to the father and the whole church stood up and cheered. One week its you guys, the next it is us. In the end we are all horrible examples of human flesh and nobody is getting it right. Except the preacher.......<br /><br />Humph, so much for God's sovereignty and the vessels He created, one for honor and another for dishonor, one for mercy and one for wrath. Just think, now it's all you womens fault. Be patient, tomorrow it will be all us weak, ineffective, horrible men. <br /><br />Really now, if you want to use Jezebel as an example and keep her in context you have to remember that she was in a position of authority, she was married to the King (at one point)and she used his name and position to work all sorts of underhanded, wicked deeds. She was selfish, vindictive and pure poison to God's truly annointed prophets. And she had a bad habit of painting herself up and changing partners when it suited her. <br /><br />You can find a lot more of her in EZ 16, Hos 2 and Rev 17. If you keep it in context and remember that we speak in spiritual rather than fleshly terms you will probably see that the sexual impurity talked about is spiritual idolatry and the food sacrificed to idols today is time and treasure(tithes) collected for the idol.<br /><br />If you put the preacher in the idol's position and the church in Jezebel's position then you begin to see what is played out in many (certainly not all) churches today.<br /><br />Before anyone gets their back all up about me calling some churches a jezebel please read Ez 16, Hos 2.<br /><br /><br />Unless of course, you want to read it literally and if you do, and if you actually are teaching your kids sexual impurity and killing animals in your backyard to sacrifice to idols then....stop it and stop it NOW.<br /><br />The good news is that through faith in Jesus Christ we either can be or have been reconciled to God. Not based on any works of the law, or anything you do or don't do. If we believe (don't forget that He is the author and finisher of that faith)in Jesus we have been redeemed, forgiven. We are a new creation, no longer male, female, slave...but sons of God.<br /><br />Ever wonder how that preacher tells the difference when God can't/doesn't? (Gal 3:28)<br /><br />I am 100% certain that you are blessed, special people in the eyes of God. (Eph 1-2) among others.ezekielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11991868400830971195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-22230295649527479712009-11-28T23:16:03.158-06:002009-11-28T23:16:03.158-06:00For background, some of you might find the Wikiped...For background, some of you might find the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jezebel_(Bible)" rel="nofollow">Wikipedia info on Jezebel</a> to be interesting. It gives a short bit on both the Old Testament Jezebel and the Jezebel of Revelation.Christa Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-24659410175359677542009-11-28T20:21:12.878-06:002009-11-28T20:21:12.878-06:00And I thought it was MALES by the name of HEFNER a...And I thought it was MALES by the name of HEFNER and FLYNT that started this trend.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-49712999426590182632009-11-28T20:18:37.411-06:002009-11-28T20:18:37.411-06:00I apologize for using the experience I have with t...I apologize for using the experience I have with the Presbyterians vs the experience I have with the Baptists to make a point that was not clear (on my first try).<br />I think it has now become a deflection away from Christa's post and the reason for this blog.<br /> <br />I was referring to how SG used the specific reference to Jezebel in Revelation to blame and shame women. This kind of wrong theology is degrading to women and has been experienced by victims of clergy sexual abuse. <br />I felt like my point related to Christa's post but I am very sorry for mentioning the other denomination now.<br />I was not trying to change the discussion to woman's issues in general. <br />The problem with the words SG referenced and now the words from these 2 Presbyterians is that these are men giving their opinions on what the Bible teaches.<br />Hopefully we believers will be Bereans.gmommyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11713588262748876624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-61813967463822703972009-11-28T19:41:22.985-06:002009-11-28T19:41:22.985-06:00How to put a link in a comment.<a href="http://www.google.com/support/blogger/bin/answer.py?hl=en&topic=8915&answer=41379" rel="nofollow">How to put a link in a comment</a>.New BBC Open Forumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.com