tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post7785095228827369450..comments2024-03-17T16:21:14.907-05:00Comments on Stop Baptist Predators: Convicted minister continuesChrista Brownhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-61712618277462007972010-09-14T10:56:54.710-05:002010-09-14T10:56:54.710-05:00Just came across this and read all and would like ...Just came across this and read all and would like to say thank you to C. Hargraves for her courage and please, stay strong! And would also like to say that the SBC sounds like the Assemblies of God...how very sad that this problem of sexual abuse by clergy is so common...more common than I EVER would have imagined until being a victim myself and being the first to come forward and now learning how common it is because of trying to seek help for myself because absolutely no help can be found in the church itself! Thank you, Christa, for this website, for your work, and thank you to all who support her and this website. I get so tired and discouraged sometimes, but I feel like I can continue the fight when I read about others who are fighting also.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-4035943019288052832008-03-21T21:03:00.000-05:002008-03-21T21:03:00.000-05:00I'd like to respond to March 13 posting by 3:34 pm...I'd like to respond to March 13 posting by 3:34 pm anonymous: They<BR/>state that...Bernard Johnson<BR/><BR/>1. made a full confession<BR/>2. had extensive counseling<BR/>3. took polygraph 2 X's<BR/>4. has multiple persons of accountability<BR/>5. gives full disclosure of activities each and every day<BR/>6. uses his platform to help other men with the same issues<BR/><BR/>My comments: That's wonderful. I think that's great the man's trying really hard to reform himself/make things right out of a very grave situation. However, here's my question with what's stated. #1 He's made a full confession...to whom? God? FBC Winnie? Ms. Hargraves? FBC Hamshire? #2 had extensive counseling (that's a plus if in fact it's true)...but these aren't problems easily remedied in a few sessions. Statistics show sexual offenders do re-offend and treatment is often ongoing just as with alcoholics or drug addicts. Of course I have no way of knowing the degree of Mr. Johnson's sexually deviant behavior although some who know him well would call it an addiction-- I have no doubt that it is very serious if he's been convicted along with videotaped evidence. #3. He's taken 2 polygraphs-- Many psychologists will point out it's quite easy for someone who is delusional/narcissistic to pass a polygraph with flying colors because they simply don't believe they have a problem or have done anything wrong. And #4. Has multiple persons of accountability (in defense of Mr. Johnson's likelihood to re-offend, that is a favorably strong deterrent to the possibility--) No problem there. #5. Gives full disclosure of activities each and every day. (Again wonderful. I praise it.)<BR/>#6. Uses his platform to help men with the same issues. Here's where I raise another question to the language of platform? Would that be pulpit platform acting as a minister? If this is the case then I don't see how that could be correct. I have a hard time believing that in any church a minister could actually talk openly about his sexual exploits/addictions to the men of the congregation. This would have to be done outside the pulpit on a one on one basis if that claim is true. Outside the authority of the church I have no problem with that, but as long as he remains inside the church, how do you advertise such an embarrassing affliction? Easing the blow by lying and saying that it was a mutual consenting affair? Again if you are a delusional narcissist and you think women actually like this type of behavior by not reporting it right away, then the perp continues his acts until they become more and more brazen and harmful. This sounds like what happened in the Hamshire incident. Men do not readily admit to this type issue until they are convicted of a crime, such as in this case. This isn't something easily talked about when you compare it with drug or alcohol addiction. I've yet to see a church banner anywhere that says "come on in all you men w/ a problem exposing yourself and masturbating in front of women." From what i understand, Ms. Hargraves is just the first to come forward and press charges. Apparently this particular minister had quite a colorful history but had managed to stay camouflaged and protected within the church dynamic for some time. <BR/><BR/>I do applaud Johnson's efforts to reform, most certainly, but as Marvin stated previously, the church should not allow him back into a leadership position as far as church ministry is concerned. Ministers should be above reproach. Mr. Johnson has carelessly destroyed his Christian witness and will never be able to clear his name from something so devastating as this--affair or not. The issue is not about forgiveness as anonymous reminds us we should do. Forgiveness IS the chief commandment of Christ and that we do, 70 X 7. That point I don't think anyone is debating. The problem occurs when a man such as this is allowed to continue to stand behind the pulpit and be expected to influence and lead potential converts to Christ. Once it gets out who he is and what he's done, it causes all kinds of terrible grief. Sexual Sin is VERY devastating, not only to the victim, but to ANY pastor who is supposed to know better. That's why we pay them to lead congregations and teach the Bible to others. Sexual sin basically shatters any hope of a pastor ever being effective for the Lord.<BR/><BR/>I think Johnson needs to continue healing and treatment, get a regular job if he doesn't have one already, ask forgiveness from all those he hurt, and leave the ministry for good. He does more harm to himself and others by staying in.<BR/><BR/>People like Christa, Barbara and David, contrary to Paige Patterson's comments, are not on a witch hunt to see who they can destroy. I don't think any of them take pleasure in having to be the hatchet person, but discipline must come from somewhere if it won't come from the institutions themselves. I know many men and women who worked long and hard inside the church to do the right thing and make some agonizing decisions. I applaud those people. But on the other hand you will always have those wretched few who practice such ongoing sinfulness in their own lives that they actually enjoy being around fallen pastors such as Johnson because it justifies their own sinfulness, making them feel better about themselves. <BR/><BR/>As far as what Christa has put together, I think it's a good idea to blog about it. I can't think of a better avenue for people to share ideas, pains, hurts, vent their gripes, etc, and still have the safety of anonymity. If you'll notice Christa happens to be an attorney, and I'm sure she does her fair share of research.<BR/><BR/>Kudos to victims like Ms. Hargraves with courage to come forward and speak out against men like Johnson. Also, Kudos to SNAP and stopbaptistpredators.org. So far SNAP, you are the only ones I know putting pressure on the SBC to do more to deal with these type problems in SBC affiliated churches. It's a start and you've at least got them talking about you. That's a good thing. <BR/><BR/>Just remember, it's the squeaky wheel that gets the oil. <BR/><BR/> Posted by Reformed BatholicAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-41818495590972380042008-03-15T11:00:00.000-05:002008-03-15T11:00:00.000-05:00I have personal knowledge of this situation and kn...I have personal knowledge of this situation and knew Mr. Johnson. I wanted to make that clear so everyone knows that I am not living in another country and not dealing with these issues, but making judgement on them.<BR/><BR/>I think the problem is that most people cannot seperate the issues. I believe that if Mr. Johnson confesses his sins and seeks forgiveness, then we are biblical obligated to forgive him, pray for him, and help him however we can. This does not mean that we should allow him to continue in a leadership position within the ministry. Some of what was listed for him is commendable. I would like to think that is I were in a sin situation and came to terms with it that I would make myself available to others for comfort and assistance, but this does not mean that I would continue as a pastor.<BR/><BR/>I am not concerned about whether an affair took place. I am doubtful that it did. (I believe that Mr. Johnson would have submitted the lie detector tests if he had them to substantiate his case.) If we assume an affair took place, then it obviously ended and he did not walk away. This would mean that he is at a minimum an adulterer. If he was an elementary school teacher, and molested one of the kids, we would have an obligation to forgive him and try to help him, but we would not under any circumstances allow him to continue teaching. Why is this different?<BR/> <BR/>My understanding is that Mr. Johnson was married previously and has a daughter, that he does not recognize. This was never disclosed to the church in Hamshire when he was hired. There is no difference, in my opinion, between non-diclosure and lying. <BR/><BR/>The bible has guidelines for church leaders and Mr. Johnson falls outside of those guidelines. If he was trying to be ordained today he would not be allowed to because of his past, but there is no avenue, that I am aware of, within the Baptist community to remove his ordination. <BR/><BR/>Put this in contrast to the christian man who may be divorced, or have other previous sins that would prevent him from going into the ministry or church leadership, but they occured prior to him becoming a christian. The bible says that he makes us new men, but we are still accountable for that past and we would not be allowed to become ministers or deacons. <BR/><BR/>In conclusion: <BR/>I believe that Mr. Johnson should be forgiven. I do not believe that his ministry has to die, but I do believe that he should renounce his ordination and step down from any leadership positions within the church.Marvinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10457702624130294092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-33580258893321985902008-03-13T16:38:00.000-05:002008-03-13T16:38:00.000-05:00Dear anonymous 3:34 PM,You must be a member of the...Dear anonymous 3:34 PM,<BR/><BR/>You must be a member of the SBC executive committee. Your line of reasoning sounds very similar to theirs. It is really amazing how you look at these things. <BR/><BR/>It seems that you all believe the accused sexual pervert minister (whoever it might be) is innocent PERIOD! I believe you consciously automatically believe that the victim is not a victim, is a seductress, is a whore and a tramp, is worthless. And you believe the minister is a saint, a victim, and that he is just as good as he looks and pretends to be. You all make me sick. Please hear that loud and clear -- not that you give a damn! How did I stay in the SBC church as long as I did.<BR/><BR/>PGAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-27658202473888007152008-03-13T16:14:00.000-05:002008-03-13T16:14:00.000-05:00"A full confession"??? If you're the same anonymou..."A full confession"??? If you're the same anonymous as a few comments above, you just got through saying that it was "a relationship that lasted over 18 months" with both parties. Is that what his so-called "full confession" convinced you of? In light of the videotape and testimony, confessing to "a relationship" seems a far stretch from "a full confession."Christa Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-13555346957399797522008-03-13T15:34:00.000-05:002008-03-13T15:34:00.000-05:00just to let you know1. he made a full confession2....just to let you know<BR/>1. he made a full confession<BR/>2. had extensive counseling<BR/>3. took the polygraph test 2 times to confirm accuracy<BR/>4. had and has multiple persons of accountibility<BR/>5. has full disclosure of all his activities each and every day.<BR/>6. uses the events as a platform to help other men with the same issues.<BR/><BR/>what else does a human being have to do to gain forgiveness from his peers, which is, by the way, a COMMANDMENT of CHRIST.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-49149783562037531572008-03-13T14:37:00.000-05:002008-03-13T14:37:00.000-05:00I hate people who make these kind of remarks: "by...I hate people who make these kind of remarks: "by the way, i wonder why God let moses, david, paul, peter, thomas, rehab, and others in the Bible as characters of influence and authorship?" <BR/><BR/>As I recall all of these people repented for the things they had done to others. They confessed their sins unlike these sexual deviant perverts who hide well because they look so good.<BR/><BR/>Please do not compare any of these low-life sexual abusers to the people in the Bible. That shows that you are in total DENIAL.<BR/><BR/>PGAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-75205550301285542112008-03-13T10:51:00.000-05:002008-03-13T10:51:00.000-05:00Oh...and just to be clear, Mr. Anonymous... It was...Oh...and just to be clear, Mr. Anonymous... It was a court that convicted Bernie Johnson, not me.Christa Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-57309267788410446952008-03-13T10:49:00.000-05:002008-03-13T10:49:00.000-05:00"Polygraph tests in sealed security at a counselin..."Polygraph tests in sealed security at a counseling agency." Yeah, right. Uh-huh.<BR/><BR/>EVEN IF polygraph tests were taken (a very big "if" in my view), and EVEN IF the results of them exist somewhere in "sealed security" (another big "if" in my view), I would choose videotape evidence over polygraph evidence. Many pros will tell you that, if someone is a true sociopath, it's often quite easy for them to fool a polygraph. In any event, polygraph tests don't give a "verdict." <BR/><BR/>Here's what we actually know - Bernie Johnson was CONVICTED. <BR/><BR/>The nature of the sworn testimony and videotape evidence that was available at the time has been set forth in 3 published news articles. That's where I got my information. The links are in the original posting. People can read it for themselves.Christa Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-72543550600151929212008-03-13T10:02:00.000-05:002008-03-13T10:02:00.000-05:00the polygraph tests are in sealed security at a co...the polygraph tests are in sealed security at a couseling agency in colorado, which can only be obtained via a court order from a district judge.<BR/><BR/>the tests were given by a retired LAPD detective who has given over 10,000 tests.<BR/><BR/>verdict of the tests says that there was a relationship that lasted over 18 months where both parties revealed themselves. <BR/><BR/>you did not get that part from the "victim" did you?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-49764251409859997242008-03-13T09:45:00.000-05:002008-03-13T09:45:00.000-05:00i'm sorry c brown - did not see the last comment o...i'm sorry c brown - did not see the last comment of mine - perhaps it is convicting to convict others without a full understanding of all the facts - that's the issue with most people - not too many paople know the whole truth. but be assured the whole truth will come out - that is a promise from GODAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-55525968832396558902008-03-13T06:25:00.000-05:002008-03-13T06:25:00.000-05:00"Two polygraph tests." Yeah, right. Uh-huh. Why do..."Two polygraph tests." Yeah, right. Uh-huh. Why don't you provide us a link to wherever that information you say you saw is?<BR/><BR/>Bernie Johnson was CONVICTED.Christa Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-18530178648403168242008-03-13T05:57:00.000-05:002008-03-13T05:57:00.000-05:00wow ... i'm sorry, i never saw the information con...wow ... i'm sorry, i never saw the information concerning the two polygraph tests that mr. johnson took that proves a much different story. <BR/><BR/>by the way, i wonder why God let moses, david, paul, peter, thomas, rehab, and others in the Bible as characters of influence and authorship?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-6905233251039831852008-03-07T14:25:00.000-06:002008-03-07T14:25:00.000-06:00Obama's advisor had to resign because she told a r...Obama's advisor had to resign because she told a reporter that Clinton was a "monster" for stooping to low tactics. SBC ministers get to continue after inappropriate sexual behavior, clergy sex abuse, etc. Much is wrong with this.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-19493276523763568182008-03-07T13:24:00.000-06:002008-03-07T13:24:00.000-06:00"Why can't people see that?" That's a question I'v..."Why can't people see that?" That's a question I've asked more times than I can count, and I've never come up with any answer. At least not one that makes any sense.<BR/><BR/>I agree with Elisabeth that it's not only the blindness of leadership but also of membership. Why do people stay in churches whose leaders have so betrayed them that they put the safety and well-being of kids and congregants at risk by turning a blind eye to information about abuse? I suppose it's because they blindly follow the immoral example of their blind leaders. If people would instead take their families and their wallets and march down the street to a different church, it might send a message that such blind-eyed responses won't be tolerated. But, of course, what actually happenes most of the time is that people just stay in their status-quo pews and sit.Christa Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-67084852311310946112008-03-06T21:03:00.000-06:002008-03-06T21:03:00.000-06:00Crap. It just goes on an on. And there is such bli...Crap. It just goes on an on. And there is such blindness on the part of leadership, and really, membership too. Nobody likes to think that stuff like this goes on, but it does. And they seem to think that minimizing it, or putting blinders on will make it go away. But it won't. That just makes it possible for it to continue. Why can't people see that?Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14764962887542099106noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-13152174800641831472008-03-06T15:04:00.000-06:002008-03-06T15:04:00.000-06:00That web site makes me sick to the core.Even if th...That web site makes me sick to the core.<BR/><BR/>Even if this pervert has actually repented...he is not scriptually qualified for ministry any more...if he ever was qualified to begin with.<BR/> Sexual perversion and addiction is NOT some "itty bitty " (borrowing from an SBC minister when referring to his personal sins "of the mind and not the heart"...duh..)<BR/>sin we can put in a box with other sins. <BR/>Sexual perversion is an abomination....it has far reaching consequences for everyone who comes in contact with the pervert....<BR/>the facts and history show clearly that sexual perversion is not something one just gets over.<BR/><BR/>I am outraged that the SBC ministers and leaders have the arrogance to rant in the pulpits about tithing,drinking,divorce..anything at all until they deal with this cancer of a sin they have been ignoring, renaming, misrepresenting, and deflecting from for too long. <BR/>Not to mention REPENTING themselves for all the damage their dishonesty and ungodliness has caused so many.<BR/><BR/>As far as the ministers still in churches that are known sexual perverts...and those that are currently covering for them......they should all be fired, lose whatever ability they have to work in churches...or schools.....and go to jail.<BR/>What's so hard about that Paige Patterson????? <BR/>Worried it will take time from some of your jungle hunts????gmommyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11713588262748876624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-73513728170461362972008-03-06T12:42:00.000-06:002008-03-06T12:42:00.000-06:00I saw the website of Bernie Johnson and something ...I saw the website of Bernie Johnson and something is not right with him, but we knew that already didn't we? He says he has had a total-being conversion, serves God with all his heart, loves his family with passion and wants to spread God's grace and mercy to everyone on the planet. Since when is lowering your pants, exposing yourself in public, touching another woman other than your wife, masturbating in front of a coworker, and putting your semen on the counter and in cups accomplishing anything godly? I'm afraid his heart has been rendered to someone other than God.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-3636269772559758562008-03-06T12:02:00.000-06:002008-03-06T12:02:00.000-06:00anon 11:33 - No apology necessary! I laughed at yo...anon 11:33 - No apology necessary! I laughed at your joke. I KNOW that there's really not anything funny about any of this (and I also know that not all SBC ministers are like this). But at the same time, if I didn't laugh sometimes, I think I'd go berserk. I guess that's kinda what dark humor is. So thanks for giving me a grin.Christa Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-36305396189497580122008-03-06T11:55:00.000-06:002008-03-06T11:55:00.000-06:00Christa, This story is the alarm that should push...Christa,<BR/> This story is the alarm that should push everyone's buttons to support your efforts to alert Oprah and other media outlets as to the atrocities that are being ignored by our churches. The general public is unaware of what is going on. There's a war overseas, and there's a war going on in our churches. Oprah and the general public has the right to know. <BR/><BR/> The politicians are calling for change, and we, too, want change in our churches. Oprah has the heart and compassion to create change through her program and contacts. She illustrated this when she dropped everything and flew out to handle the crisis at her school, dismissing the perpetrator on the spot. If only church authorities would follow her lead.<BR/><BR/> We've been crying out for change for so long that we turned it into a book, "Innocence Betrayed - A Dad's Story of Clergy Misconduct" and a companion workbook to aid in recognizing the signs of the grooming process used by those who exploit innocent and vulnerable victims. <BR/><BR/><BR/>Helen Wisocki and Curt Szajnecki<BR/>www.innocencebetrayedbyclergy.comAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-35183125551596691952008-03-06T11:33:00.000-06:002008-03-06T11:33:00.000-06:00I want to apologize for the joke posted at 10:32am...I want to apologize for the joke posted at 10:32am. I would take it back if I could but that is not possible. The Lord convicted me because I realized that I become like some ministers when I tell a joke like that. I never want to be that way. All I can say is "I'm sorry".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-1641814369174689582008-03-06T11:16:00.000-06:002008-03-06T11:16:00.000-06:00anon 10:49 said: "If it was hard for the adult vic...anon 10:49 said: "If it was hard for the adult victim to come forth and speak out about Johnson's behavior, how do we know a teen or child has not been exposed to it and is too afraid to come forward?"<BR/><BR/>Excellent point! It's plenty difficult enough for an adult to speak about those sorts of violations, and many can't. So how do people imagine that kids will find the words to speak of such things? Kudos to C. Hargraves for her courage! Shame on all Southern Baptist leaders who allow such a man to remain in ministry.Christa Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-15570339506964701062008-03-06T10:45:00.000-06:002008-03-06T10:45:00.000-06:00Christa,You are my new hero! Keep up the good wor...Christa,<BR/><BR/>You are my new hero! Keep up the good work. <BR/><BR/>BTW, the SBTC board member was having an affair and that's how they chose to parse it and cover it up. They forgot that the town in which it occurred is a town that has no secrets. Even though half the town knows the truth, the other board members of the SBTC also know it and choose to do nothing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-81892297503579271172008-03-06T10:32:00.000-06:002008-03-06T10:32:00.000-06:00What kind of man is immoral, sexually assaults, ex...What kind of man is immoral, sexually assaults, exposes himself, is an adulterer and gets respect, praise and salary while doing it?<BR/><BR/>Answer: An SBC minister!<BR/><BR/>(Jeri, is that dark humor?)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-61365028071573238092008-03-06T10:06:00.000-06:002008-03-06T10:06:00.000-06:00After reading about Bernard Johnson, I can't help ...After reading about Bernard Johnson, I can't help but think how badly SBC pastors need to be held accountable. Yet Mac Brunson says the greatest need is to be supportive of them. (This from an earlier topic). It is a joke. A tragic joke.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com