tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post8447933203037023743..comments2024-03-17T16:21:14.907-05:00Comments on Stop Baptist Predators: Greatness and SmallnessChrista Brownhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-75323623872648899432009-06-23T08:16:52.160-05:002009-06-23T08:16:52.160-05:00About creating a database...
As Thy Peace points ...About creating a database...<br /><br />As Thy Peace points out, the problem is less about the database itself as what goes into the database. The need is for a trained review panel to assess whether clergy abuse accusations are credible. (This is what most other major faith groups do in some form or fashion.) Most clergy sex abusers have never been criminally convicted of anything, and due to the psychological damage that abuse causes, most cases <i><b>cannot</b></i> be criminally prosecuted by the time allegations are raised. So what is needed is some system for assessment on the 95 percent of allegations that cannot be processed through the criminal justice system, and some way of keeping track of credibly accused ministers so that they can't just keep on church-hopping.<br /><br />For the SBC to take on the responsibility for making assessments such as this would entail taking on some risk. For example, SBC leaders may be afraid that, if they take on this responsibility, they may get sued by ministers who feel that their careers were wrongly ruined. But is that a reason to not take on the responsibility? These are, after all, Southern Baptist ministers who carry the Southern Baptist "brand" on their shoulders, and so Southern Baptists ought be the ones who carry the risk associated with assuring some measure of accountability for their ministers. (To the extent there is risk associated with the responsibiity of assessing clergy abuse reports, the national organization has the resources to bear that risk, and to possibly insure against it, better than local churches.)<br /><br />Denominational assessments would also allow people to better hear the voices of the victims, who often feel that they cannot speak out and name their perpetrators without the safety-net of denominational validation for their accusations. (That's on top of all the other shame-based hurdles.) Victims often worry about the risk that the minister will sue them. No matter how true their allegations are, most victims cannot bear the cost of defending against a minister's lawsuit (particularly when the minister often gets "help" from church-goers who love him and believe every word he says). <br /><br />Almost any sort of action carries risk, but of course there is also the risk of nonaction -- i.e., a great many more wounded people. Some day, people will see and understand that the choice Southern Baptist leaders have consistently made is the choice to protect themselves and the institution rather than to protect kids and congregants.Christa Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-84129027862133337662009-06-23T07:38:31.856-05:002009-06-23T07:38:31.856-05:00Maintaining database is the least complicated port...Maintaining database is the least complicated portion of this problem. The more difficult part is to objectively evaluate sexual abuse charges and to post the findings.<br /><br />Also databases are becoming passe. A more accurate logging of sexual abuse in my view would be the voices of people who are abused. In this regard blogging has turned the tables on the status quo. If you are unable to start a blog, you can comment in existing blogs. As you participate, your voice will form a record.<br /><br />This is why, I would encourage all people to voice their thoughts and opinions about this matter. Please speak up, even though all this is painful. Eventually the groundswell of voices will overcome the naysayers.Rameshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09728392311602332613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-46478883260259539802009-06-23T05:24:03.796-05:002009-06-23T05:24:03.796-05:00Anon - who "certified" that I'm a nu...Anon - who "certified" that I'm a nut case? Was that "Dr." Brunson?<br /><br />:)FBC Jax Watchdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10740366031265491559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-6151953025986307852009-06-23T00:07:06.063-05:002009-06-23T00:07:06.063-05:00Richard - You're absolutely right about what i...Richard - You're absolutely right about what it would take to create a data base: not very much. Getting someone to set it up and regularaly maintain it would take some time, but I'm sure there are several at the SBC headquarters who could devote a portion of their time to getting it done. Finding the means to do it, and finding the right people for the job is not the roadblock. It would seem there is a lack of enthusiasm among SBC's leadership. But I'd be willing to bet if one of their wives, daughters, or grandchildren were abused by a sex offender pastor, they'd jump at the chance to do everything they could to stop clergy sexual misconduct. God forbid that it would take something as awful as that to get these men moving in the right direction!<br /><br />And thanks for your anger and outrage over the Jax case with DG. Unfortunately, that case is just one of way too many. We all got a glimpse of the suffering that clergy sexual misconduct yields--for all involved--past, present and future. <br /><br />The church in this country--not only the SBC, but all denominations and faiths--needs to wake up! Sex offenders in the pulpit/ministry should never be allowed. There is no excuse for what has happened, and what is happening. <br /><br />Sharon RoseAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-3446941158929256562009-06-22T21:05:27.086-05:002009-06-22T21:05:27.086-05:00Tom Rich is a certifiable nut case and the whole w...Tom Rich is a certifiable nut case and the whole world knows it. That is except for a bunch of disgruntled others on this blog.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-44991648872902706592009-06-22T19:06:37.632-05:002009-06-22T19:06:37.632-05:00Thanks for straightening me out Thy Peace ... all ...Thanks for straightening me out Thy Peace ... all I knew at the time that I posted the newsbreak was what I read. I'm sure Tom will update his blog and let us all know what is going on as he knows it. I can only wonder if Brunson knew this last night as he was screaming.Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17613931887262871062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-48654521830792182202009-06-22T18:51:40.722-05:002009-06-22T18:51:40.722-05:00New BBC Open Forum posted a correction saying the ...New BBC Open Forum posted a correction saying the above news story is not accurate:<br /><br /><i>New BBC Open Forum said...<br /><br /> Richard,<br /><br /> The news report wasn't completely accurate. The lawsuit is against Brunson and Soud as individuals, not "the church."<br /><a href="http://newbbcopenforum.blogspot.com/2009/06/changes.html?showComment=1245713893487#c8909202831652600663" rel="nofollow">6:38 PM, June 22, 2009</a></i>Rameshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09728392311602332613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-10342721259488231642009-06-22T18:44:37.798-05:002009-06-22T18:44:37.798-05:00Action News Jax > "First Baptist Blogger&q...<a href="http://www.actionnewsjax.com/content/topstories/story/First-Baptist-Blogger-suing-church/Bhn6VtOPrkmKhYGsJVtVBQ.cspx" rel="nofollow">Action News Jax > "First Baptist Blogger" suing church</a>.<br /><i>JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- The attorney for the so-called "First Baptist Blogger" sent a letter to the church notifying his intent to sue.</i>Rameshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09728392311602332613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-81244664751771165702009-06-22T17:38:00.830-05:002009-06-22T17:38:00.830-05:00BREAKING NEWS!
"First Baptist Blogger" ...BREAKING NEWS!<br /><br />"First Baptist Blogger" suing church<br /><br />http://www.actionnewsjax.com/content/topstories/story/First-Baptist-Blogger-suing-church/Bhn6VtOPrkmKhYGsJVtVBQ.cspxRichardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17613931887262871062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-29201930324045311622009-06-22T16:13:24.536-05:002009-06-22T16:13:24.536-05:00Sorry if I might have jumped the gun there Christa...Sorry if I might have jumped the gun there Christa ... you know more about these organizations and publications than I do. I just thought it ironic. I guess I owe my apologies to the ABP ... after I read the NEXT article they published about Jacksonville, the crime capital of the world :(Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17613931887262871062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-60909167010132437302009-06-22T16:06:56.013-05:002009-06-22T16:06:56.013-05:00Actually... I tend to be about as "on-guard&q...Actually... I tend to be about as "on-guard" as anyone, but in this case, I <b><i>don't</i></b> think Associated Baptist Press was trying to avoid having people see the comments. To the contrary, I think they were trying to maintain the article's visibility on their site because the article was generating reader interest. I haven't spoken with anyone there about this, and so I can't say for sure, but I noticed that they put the article up as one of their slider-lead stories on the opening home page of their site. At the top, the site automatically rotates through 3 top stories with links to those top stories. One of the three slider-leads is the article about my book, and they have a photo of my book cover and me that rotates through there at the top. I don't know... but I suspect that when they put up the slider-lead, they had to repost the article. <br /><br />The article is <a href="http://www.abpnews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4142&Itemid=53." rel="nofollow">here</a>, and it's <b><i>still</i></b> garnering comments. Feel free to add your own.<br /><br />If you want to see what I'm talking about as a "slider-lead", it's at the top of the ABP home page - <a href="http://www.abpnews.com/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1" rel="nofollow">here</a>. Click one of those arrows in that top box, and you'll see my smiling face!<br /><br />Incidentally, <i>Associated</i> Baptist Press is not directly affiliated with the Southern Baptist Convention.Christa Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-79543926254968083262009-06-22T15:17:40.011-05:002009-06-22T15:17:40.011-05:00This is kinda sneaky, dontcha think?
If you go ...This is kinda sneaky, dontcha think? <br /><br />If you go to the ABP website and click on the link to the article about Christa's book, it takes you to a page that has only TWO comments. It then has an Editor's note at the bottom: "This is a reposting of this article. To read or post comments on this story, go to the original version posted at http://www.abpnews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4142&Itemid=53. <br /><br />This way, readers do not get to see all the comments! Try it! The ABP Press has figured out a way to block your comments!Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17613931887262871062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-73337260762873693632009-06-22T13:59:40.123-05:002009-06-22T13:59:40.123-05:00Gosh CP...it was so good not to hear from you for ...Gosh CP...it was so good not to hear from you for a while in blog land. Sorry to see you again...and glad Christa will soon delete your insanity. Just for the record...you are behind on your "news" about PW....that is not current or correct information about the job or family. You don't know the family and were never involved in BBC. "Assurance" from anything you say is quite funny.gmommyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11713588262748876624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-88776902955746995322009-06-22T13:54:17.729-05:002009-06-22T13:54:17.729-05:00Sharon Rose - and others for that matter ... what ...Sharon Rose - and others for that matter ... what WOULD it take to create and maintain a database of clergy offenders. I've worked with databases all my life and I would GLADLY volunteer MY efforts! I truly don't think it would take that much. It would be interesting to find out. As you can see from my previous post, the state of Florida has the ability to create and maintain a database for inmates of the state prison system. They also do the same for sexual predators which is widely advertised. There is no charge to access these databases; it is NOT a money-making proposition. BUT THEY EXIST! Why can't we band together and do what the SBC WON'T!<br /><br />Non-denominational. Non-discriminatory. "Just the facts ma'am."<br /><br />I welcome feedback.Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17613931887262871062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-3544027115444101302009-06-22T13:43:23.676-05:002009-06-22T13:43:23.676-05:00WatchingHIStory - This situation is an abomination...<b>WatchingHIStory</b> - This situation is an abomination and everyone, including Christians, have the perfect RIGHT to be angry (a very natural and common human response.) There has been no repentance here - let's just sweep it under the rug and forgive? And then continue on our merry way just as we always have?<br /><br />Not quite. These bozos need to be put in their place by their congregations. I'm not a Baptist nor am I a victim of sexual abuse by anyone, much less a member of the ministry. This situation is an abomination ranking every bit as high as the more recent Catholic scandals.<br /><br />When repentance and change come, then the forgiveness will start. I'm nowhere near that point yet and contrary to what you may think, "the devil don't got me!"Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17613931887262871062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-35110702045007078312009-06-22T13:14:34.722-05:002009-06-22T13:14:34.722-05:00WatchingHISstory - What aspect of forgiveness are ...WatchingHISstory - What aspect of forgiveness are you speaking of? Yes, most Baptists would agree that every clergy sex offender who is held accountable, who repents, and seeks to be forgiven ought to be forgiven by his victims...but how many clergy sex offenders have done that? And what about the clergy offender's responsibility to the congregation? Many offenders have little enough conscience to even recognize their wrongdoing, let alone repent from it.<br /> In the case of Darrell Gilyard, he was given numerous opportunities to repent and seek forgiveness over many years. He is an evil man who should never be entrusted with any position of church leadership again whether or not he is "forgiven" by the victims.<br /> Victims of those who offend are only compelled to confront the offender and forgive if asked. It is up to the offender to seek forgiveness for his sins. Some Bible scholars would suggest that it is even impossible for a victim to forgive a clergy sex offender because of the difference in power between the two.<br /> The adage that a victim can only find healing through forgiving the offender is crock. Healing is a process. I've found it takes a lot of hard work with love and support of others to bind up the wounds.<br /><br />Christa - Often times those in leadership will focus on what is "out there" - the world - to distract from the reality of the stench right under their noses. How can Southern Baptists "minister" to the world when they can't even take care of business here in the States? They have the means to pull together a national registry of clergy offenders. Perhaps they are afraid if they did their list would be so great they couldn't fill the needed pastoral positions!<br /><br />Thanks for your courage, and your book. God's blessings to you. <br /><br />Sharon RoseAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-83828378040261477442009-06-22T13:06:57.797-05:002009-06-22T13:06:57.797-05:00To expand a bit on my previous post, if one goes t...To expand a bit on my previous post, if one goes to jacksonville.com and does a local search for 'Darrell Gilyard,' one will find 37 news articles and 20 different blogs discussing him. Go to EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THEM! Cut and paste. Boom-Boom. Ten seconds. Reactivate dead blogs (we cannot let Tiffany Croft's blog die,) make comments on news articles until they are the most commented articles on the site. Keep this issue at the forefront of EVERYONE's mind, not just the Baptists! Let EVERYONE know ... Methodists, Episcopalians, Catholics .... MUSLIMS ... this cause has got to get word to the masses that this is a real and present danger. Turn religious communities on their heads! The ABP comments by 'slick' made me want to regurgitate my breakfast (putting it politically correct.)<br /><br />Rally the masses just like the women's suffrage movement! Christa, you can be our Alva Erskine Smith Vanderbilt Belmont!Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17613931887262871062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-61702594969448523602009-06-22T12:46:37.486-05:002009-06-22T12:46:37.486-05:00Christa, I just commented on a recent article publ...Christa, I just commented on a recent article published on the Florida Times Union website (our local newspaper.) Seeing as newspapers are going broke left and right lately I didn't think it was appropriate to "advertise" your book for free. However, I DID "mention" your book and plugged your FREE website so my conscience is clear!<br /><br />Link:<br />http://jacksonville.com/lifestyles/values_and_religion/2009-05-26/story/ancient_discipline_in_modern_times#comment-69704<br /><br />(How about fixin this for me and make it an actual link so nobody will have to cut and paste.)<br /><br />Bloggers, go to every news outlet there is on this vast internet of ours. Find news articles, other blogs, ANYTHING where you can direct people to read Christa's blog and by that you are "indirectly" plugging her book.<br /><br />Advertising don't come cheap these days. Free is good. Follow my lead, use my comment as an example. I am "InJaxAllMyLife." Since Jacksonville (unfortunately) has Darrell Gilyard and Bob Gray as poster boys, PLEASE comment on the articles in our newspaper. Make them the "most commented" articles on the site.<br /><br />Do the same in Memphis. Do the same in any town you live in or DON'T live in. It doesn't matter. Just spread the word. Spread the word just as some of these charlatans in the pulpit are supposed to be spreading the word of God.<br /><br />From Wikipedia: "Charlatan: A charlatan (also called swindler or mountebank) is a person practicing quackery or some similar confidence trick in order to obtain money, fame or other advantages via some form of pretense or deception."Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17613931887262871062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-85295141728789827732009-06-22T11:40:35.885-05:002009-06-22T11:40:35.885-05:00what is taboo here me or the message of victims fo...what is taboo here me or the message of victims forgiving?<br /><br />There are many aspects to this issue and the one you seem to ignore is your forgiving your perpetrator. He must be prosecuted fully but he must also be forgiven and you just seem to ignore this and encourage others to do so as well.WatchingHISstoryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10339668990091164802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-17028379718587630212009-06-22T09:31:25.315-05:002009-06-22T09:31:25.315-05:00Priest Removed; Officials Say He Had Relationship ...<b>Priest Removed; Officials Say He Had Relationship With Member</b><br /><br /><i>"Parish officials announced that an Orange Park priest has been stripped of his clerical credentials for having an inappropriate relationship with an adult female church member."</i><br /><br />Link to news article:<br /><br />http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/news-article.aspx?storyid=76787<br /><br />Apparently the Anglicans get it. One strike and your OUT!Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17613931887262871062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-64645666523698019452009-06-22T08:24:39.472-05:002009-06-22T08:24:39.472-05:00Many thanks to those of you who contributed commen...Many thanks to those of you who contributed comments to the <a href="http://www.abpnews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4142&Itemid=53." rel="nofollow">Associated Baptist Press article</a> about my book. It's up to 93 today, and still counting. I think that's way more than ANY other ABP article has ever garnered. <br /><br />To this day, the ABP is still running that article as a lead-story-slider at the top of its home page. I believe the many comments are what have helped to keep the story in a highly-visible place on the site, and particularly with the Southern Baptist Convention starting tomorrow, your comments help.Christa Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-51136736730766569792009-06-22T08:10:42.881-05:002009-06-22T08:10:42.881-05:00I'm reposting below a prior comment by Jeri:
...<i>I'm reposting below a <a href="http://stopbaptistpredators.blogspot.com/2009/06/harsh-words-make-my-point.html?showComment=1245186997602#c4033980757545047838" rel="nofollow">prior comment by <b>Jeri</b>:</a></i><br /><br />"... You know, friends, the more people who post reviews on Amazon, the more prominently Amazon will display the book in searches for things like "Baptist Books" (believe it or not!), religion, clergy issues, etc. <br /><br />Amazon does its rankings based on daily sales, so a brand new book that sells 10 copies in one day actually shoots to the top of their smaller charts (like religion). And reviews also add points to the ratings, as do comments on reviews.<br /><br />If you are shy about writing in such a large venue, you can always stay simple: identify your reason for reading the book (I'm a Christian; I've been following clergy abuse stories; or I'm a survivor of clergy abuse, etc) and then a single statement of your reaction. (This book helped me understand the situation. Or, I had no idea the problem was this serious. Or, This book made me feel like I have not suffered alone, etc.<br /><br />By contributing reviews and comments on reviews, you help to keep the book prominent."<br /><br /><i>Thanks to any of you who are able to post just a few sentences about my book on the <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/098184183X/actiontalesco-20" rel="nofollow">Amazon</a> or <a href="http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?r=1&itm=1&EAN=9780981841830&z=y" rel="nofollow">Barnes & Noble</a> sites. It really helps!</i>Christa Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-65366633726088804542009-06-22T07:37:50.514-05:002009-06-22T07:37:50.514-05:00It is certainly a good thing that Darrell Gilyard ...It is certainly a good thing that Darrell Gilyard must finally face some small consequence for some small part of what he did, and I wouldn't want to underplay that. At the same time, I think the more important question that people should always keep in their heads is "How would things be any different the next time?"<br /><br />The terrible thing is that we have no reason to think anything has changed. We have no reason to believe that anyone in Baptist leadership has learned anything from the tragic saga. <a href="http://stopbaptistpredators.blogspot.com/2009/05/it-should-not-be-forgotten.html" rel="nofollow">It should not be forgotten</a> that Gilyard was able to persist for so long because many other Baptist leaders turned a blind eye. Those leaders who cold-heartedly turned a cold shoulder to those wounded by Gilyard, and who continued to promote Gilyard despite numerous abuse and assault reports, have not been held to account at all. To the contrary, they're still in positions of high leadership. (And of course, the Gilyard saga is far from unique. E.g., pastor Steve Gaines still stands in the pulpit at Bellevue despite the fact that he allowed an admitted child molester to continue in ministry and kept quiet about it for months. The unmistakeable message in this lack of accountability is that Baptists don't really believe these things matter very much.)<br /><br />Until lessons are learned from Gilyard-type tragedies, the tragedies will keep repeating themselves.Christa Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-21902822557345794122009-06-21T22:46:48.182-05:002009-06-21T22:46:48.182-05:00For those who might get a bit of satisfaction out ...For those who might get a bit of satisfaction out of this, you can go to:<br /><br />http://www.dc.state.fl.us/ActiveInmates/search.asp<br /><br />State of Florida Department of Corrections Inmate Population Search. Type Darrell Gilyard’s name in there and you can see his new mug shot.Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17613931887262871062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-15225931302824521322009-06-21T17:48:24.654-05:002009-06-21T17:48:24.654-05:00gmommy,
Again your words touch my heart. Thank yo...gmommy,<br /><br />Again your words touch my heart. Thank you.Phyllis Gregorynoreply@blogger.com