tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post8483075320994440595..comments2024-03-17T16:21:14.907-05:00Comments on Stop Baptist Predators: More talk from Mr. So-called EthicsChrista Brownhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-27896592558557092212008-03-22T14:31:00.000-05:002008-03-22T14:31:00.000-05:00Amen Brother Junkster!Amen Brother Junkster!Christa Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-4921615114397192672008-03-22T13:29:00.000-05:002008-03-22T13:29:00.000-05:00Something just occurred to me ... please bear with...Something just occurred to me ... please bear with me as I try to out it into words...<BR/><BR/>Baptist leaders are quick to say that the SBC can't do anything about abusive ministers because of the doctrine of local church autonomy. This indicates that autonomy is such a highly prized doctrine that it over-rides pretty much everything, including concerns about protecting children. In essence they say, "Catholics can handle the problem differently than we can because their church government is structured differently; our hands are tied by our form of church government."<BR/><BR/>Yet Baptists believe in (cling to) the doctrine of autonomy not just out of tradition, but because they believe it is right. They believe it is what the Bible teaches, and that other forms of church government (like the hierarchical structure of the Catholic church) are unbiblical. Put another way, Baptist believe that the way Catholics are organized is wrong, just as they believe Catholics are wrong on their doctrines of justification, sanctification, purgatory, saints, Mary, etc.<BR/><BR/>All that said, wouldn't if follow that when the Catholic church as an organization removes a Priest's ordination and refuses him a place of service in any Catholic church, according to Baptist doctrine, the Catholic church is wrong for doing so? I mean, if Baptists believe they are right about church government (autonomy) and Catholics are wrong (hierarchy), then doesn't that mean that the Catholic church is wrong when they act according to their wrong doctrine?<BR/><BR/>But I have yet to hear a Baptist leader say that. They simply throw up their hands and say, "Oh well, Catholics do things differently than we do; we can't do what they do."<BR/><BR/>This raises the question ... if autonomy is really the primary concern, and if it is so strongly believed to be true Bible doctrine, why do Baptist preachers not have the courage of their convictions to come right out and say, "What we are doing [leaving it to local churches] is right and what the Catholics are doing [handling it as an organization as a whole] is wrong"?<BR/><BR/>I will answer my own question ... because they know how bad it would sound. It would be plain for all to see that they are saying that it is preferable to allow abuse to continue in order to protect autonomy. <BR/><BR/>And that is one reason I believe autonomy to be just a smokescreen, a convenient excuse to do nothing. There may be many reasons the SBC has chosen not to address this issue as it should (fear of lawsuits, pride, potential loss of esteem and power, laziness, apathy, etc.) but autonomy is not the reason; it is just an excuse.Junksterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14422651080120306816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-49999446147155687502008-03-19T17:36:00.000-05:002008-03-19T17:36:00.000-05:00Anon 5:04 - I couldn't have said it any better tha...Anon 5:04 - I couldn't have said it any better than Phyllis just did. Welcome to this blog. We're sort of like a club that no one would ever choose to be a member of, but we're happy to have you anyway.Christa Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-26588946257171361892008-03-19T17:24:00.000-05:002008-03-19T17:24:00.000-05:00Dear anonymous,Please do not blame yourself for an...Dear anonymous,<BR/>Please do not blame yourself for anything that happened to you or to anyone else. You are not responsible and you are not at fault. I don't think feeling compelled to protect others is a bad thing. Just do your best to now protect and take care of yourself. It would be nice if the other ministers would feel responsible to stop the abuse. I just don't know that that is going to happen any time soon. I encourage you to join a sexual-abuse survivors group and to also consider therapy if you are not already doing that. Please know we (all sexual abuse survivors) are here for you. You reached out by commenting on this blog. Keep reaching out.<BR/><BR/>Take care. My prayers are with you.<BR/><BR/>PGAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-90330226852324764632008-03-19T17:04:00.000-05:002008-03-19T17:04:00.000-05:00A friend was asked if she had heard what happened ...A friend was asked if she had heard what happened at FB _______ and she said she did not want to know. She knew what happened to me and it disturbed her. Now I am afraid something similar might have happened and I am feeling guilty as if somehow I am responsible. If only the ministers on staff with clergy abusers would feel responsible to stop the abuse, instead of the victims carrying that burden. Experiencing clergy abuse makes one feel compelled to protect others.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-21380639011647887822008-03-18T17:26:00.000-05:002008-03-18T17:26:00.000-05:00I think money has a lot to do with it. But I also...I think money has a lot to do with it. But I also think pride, ego, and the whole "we have arrived and we can tell you how to do it" attitude has a lot to do with it. <BR/><BR/><BR/>If the SBC churches as a whole actually admitted that their churches were full of pedophiles and sexual perverts, then their little perfect kingdoms would come crashing down. They have to be PERFECT as Jesus was perfect; and if you work at it hard enough you just might come close to making it. <BR/><BR/>My gosh! That's how I was raised. And, so many believe, I know because I was one of them, that they really are the Lord's CHOSEN. They just are not real sure about everyone else -- whether or not any other group will make it to heaven or not. I am ranting.<BR/><BR/>Bottom line -- I think there is so much more than money involved. I think it is who these people have made themselves out to be -- not God's servants but God's first in command. If they became honest and transparent and seekers of the truth, they could no longer be who they really are -- shallow, shallow people who are just not in touch with reality.<BR/><BR/>PGAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-86847927726539632462008-03-18T14:43:00.000-05:002008-03-18T14:43:00.000-05:00Anonymous: I'm not in any way suggesting that Cath...Anonymous: I'm not in any way suggesting that Catholics have solved their problem. Clearly, they haven't. Some dioceses are better than others, and some are downright abysmal. But Catholics (along with other major Protestant groups) have at last begun the process of addressing clergy abuse in a systematic manner. That's more than Southern Baptists have done, and so Southern Baptists have no basis for finger-wagging.<BR/><BR/>Ultimately, any policy is only as good as the people who implement it. But policies do at least provide a basis for assessing compliance. They're a starting point. As compared to other faith groups on this issue, Southern Baptists haven't even yet stepped up to the starting point.<BR/><BR/>If what you say is true - that Land and the SBC fear the risk of financial judgments - then this means they are prioritizing the safety of the institution's financial coffers over and above the safety of kids. God help them if indeed this is the callous assessment they are making. I blogged about this a few postings earlier - <A HREF="http://stopbaptistpredators.blogspot.com/2008/03/is-it-about-money.html" REL="nofollow">here</A>.Christa Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-16216175965728217032008-03-18T13:43:00.000-05:002008-03-18T13:43:00.000-05:00While I do not agree with Richard Land in the leas...While I do not agree with Richard Land in the least please do not suggest that the Catholics have actually cured their problems. There isn't a week that goes by that we don't read about yet another priest who has been molesting young boys. The "one strike" rule is a joke in the Catholic church.<BR/><BR/>One thing I do see in today's world is that the Catholics are being sued and losing huge financial judgments against themselves. I'm sure that's what Land and the SBC are afraid of--but then it would be hard to bring a lawsuit against the SBC when something is done in a local autonomous church. Most local churches don't even begin to have the funds to pay the kind of financial judgments the Catholic church is experiencing.<BR/><BR/>Just a little food for thought...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com