tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post8546783241639401380..comments2024-03-17T16:21:14.907-05:00Comments on Stop Baptist Predators: Bill Zeller's suicide noteChrista Brownhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-77867579974041521042011-02-24T15:42:35.452-06:002011-02-24T15:42:35.452-06:00I was abused throughout my childhood in a fundamen...I was abused throughout my childhood in a fundamentalist family, and as a young adult worked therapy very hard. I re-parented myself, still hold the image of a little boy inside who when he gets very sad, I can comfort and help. I hold these images all the time. I say that because there are ways, there are people who you can help even when you don't believe it is possible. It is like in the movies you are told to step off the cliff and you see nothing but the chasm, but when you take the step, behold some magic. Something there, and you are supported. Every time I see that in a movie, I feel the hope. The magic of recovery. <br /><br />The hatred, I understand that too, and cannot yet get over the feelings of hatred I have for what and who did what they did to me. I learned not to turn it in, but still it is there and strong and I can remember so many things for which I cannot fully let go. How lonely I was, being robbed of a full childhood, the feeling of isolation. He calls it the darkness, I called it the hand at my throat. I personified the same way. And to see someone who causes so much pain, so cruel, so evil, to be smiling and treated with respect, to be successful. And you know it is all a front, and you know what they are thinking and what they are capable of, the monster you know hidden from the world. I just can never get my head around that. Why? How can they be?<br /><br />But even with the hatred, I have learned to let it go in ways that are not destructive to myself or others. My feelings of loss, anxiety, fear, anger can be held and dissipated, I can be close to others I can smile, I can laugh. The therapy did work, it did, for many many years. Please know there is hope, there is a way. I wish I had met the man who wrote this letter.SATnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-31769591709125080102011-01-13T20:58:55.463-06:002011-01-13T20:58:55.463-06:00Joel,
Thank you for your post. Christa and Debbie...Joel, <br />Thank you for your post. Christa and Debbie responded with some of the thoughts I had while reading your points. <br />There was one other thing that stuck out for me. When is PTSD ever "simple" or "simply PTSD"?? <br />I don't know if his PTSD was "unusually severe and toxic sort" either. <br />What is "usual" and isn't all PTSD of the toxic sort?? <br />It feels disrespectful and worse to try and "box" just what PTSD should be. We are all wired differently and the response and support we get after trauma and abuse is so very crucial to the path of healing. As a behavior health professional, I think that's an important point to remember.Valarienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-77624208116966968162011-01-13T16:56:29.929-06:002011-01-13T16:56:29.929-06:00"Southern Baptists are a large organization w...<i>"Southern Baptists are a large organization who has the resources . . . We just refuse to do so."</i><br /><br />Yes. Nowadays, Southern Baptists are doing far less than other major faith groups in this country to safeguard against sexual abuse committed by ministers. It's tragic because, as Debbie says, they clearly have the power to do a great deal more, and they simply refuse.<br /><br />The denomination's failure to even provide a safe place where survivors can report abuse committed by clergy (for cases that cannot be criminally prosecuted, which is most) also means that many survivors are absolutely savaged by the faith community when they do attempt to talk about it. I've had many survivors say to me something like this: "I thought no one could ever do anything worse to me than what the minister did to me when I was a kid . . . and then I tried to report it."<br /><br />It literally breaks my heart that Southern Baptists refuse to set up a system that might at least help to spare abuse survivors from these <i><b>additional</b></i> wounds. How I wish that Baptist officials could understand the enormous harm that they are doing by refusing to hear the voices of the wounded.Christa Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-80326925725894864372011-01-13T15:23:58.463-06:002011-01-13T15:23:58.463-06:00Joel: I agree with you that Southern Baptists nor ...Joel: I agree with you that Southern Baptists nor any other organization does not have the corner 'market' but we Southern Baptists are a large organization who has the resources to make sure that it does not happen on our watch or in our churches. We just refuse to do so.Debbie Kaufmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17748664558802779885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-4935302329803078682011-01-13T09:47:07.974-06:002011-01-13T09:47:07.974-06:00This makes me very sad. I think it is a good thin...This makes me very sad. I think it is a good thing that Bill told the world. It seems to me that abuse victims are expected to somehow deal with that plus be very polite about not causing any discomfort when others have to hear about the abuse. <br /><br />Why should victims have to suffer in silence?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-33924962216725480802011-01-13T00:05:03.196-06:002011-01-13T00:05:03.196-06:00I will try to be brief, but there are three points...I will try to be brief, but there are three points I would like to make, in response to Bill's letter. First, although Bill was certain that it was impossible, it was <b>NOT</b> impossible for him to have been helped. What he describes is simply PTSD, of an admittedly unusually severe and toxic sort. Understanding of the effects of trauma is only coming about very recently, and the treatments for it have not been available, long. But there are hundreds of people walking around who suffered in every way as extremely as Bill did, but who by grace found <b>good</b> (capable, committed, campassionate) professionals to help them overcome the darkness.<br /><br />Second, sexual abuse is certainly the flagship of the abuse fleet, but survivors of other kinds of abuse (or trauma from other sources), such as violent physical abuse or even intense emotional abuse, can manifest the same kinds of things that Bill describes. There are countless suicides that could be credited to this, but who left no record to educate us. We owe Bill a debt of gratitude for the window of insight he offered us. Others will be helped, because of his courage and eloquence.<br /><br />Finally, I would like to note that Baptists, or other Christians of any variety, do not have the market cornered on abuse and attrocities. Say rather that even religion is not proof positive against evil and the darkness--the connection with the power of the spirit must exceed the scope of religion alone, if it is to suffice to guide a person or a family to the light.<br /><br />I am a trauma survivor and a behavioral health professional, working in addictions treatment, and I can attest without reservation that abuse, of all kinds, and especially sexual abuse, accounts for <b>vastly</b> more of the addiction and mental and emotional illness than most people ever realize.Joel Rutledgenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-40239678551881575302011-01-12T17:15:15.584-06:002011-01-12T17:15:15.584-06:00As one who has been abused by clergy actually at d...As one who has been abused by clergy actually at different points in my life, I do weep for this gentleman as my abuse started within a very dysfunctional family. However, all of us who have known this darkness also know we can read this and be drawn to it. Drawn to the darkness that we so easily identify with, drawn to the evil that we feel about ourselves, the darkness within relationships that is omnipresent, and many other things. Upon reading this, we must be more determined to be drawn to and pulled out of this and move toward a position of strength. Somehow we cannot let go of that, and find our feelings so that we can let them out. We need to do this so that there are less letters to be written with the deep sadness and trouble in this. We, as adults, cannot change what has happened in our childhood. But we need to choose hope and strength, somehow, any way that we can grab on to the lifeline of hope, we must choose it. We can respond by simply hanging on during the dark days of this awful presence in our lives. We can reach out, find people, find help, but reach in also.....deep within ourselves and try and then try some more, fighting ferociously to be a real person and not let this name who we are or who we become.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-3745474836067042692011-01-11T21:08:53.982-06:002011-01-11T21:08:53.982-06:00A post on the story link,
"I agree with tayl...A post on the story link,<br /><br />"I agree with taylor... "is it true, or the ruminations of a troubled mind, a false memory"?<br /><br />We don't know if this troubled young man's allegations are based in reality, or delusional.<br /><br />Either way, it is certainly irresponsible for anonymous posters to accuse this poor young man's father."<br /><br />... with attitudes like this, is it any wonder.....<br /><br /><br />The same attitude that Steve Gaines has around Bellevue Baptist church.<br /><br />Remember the key is "forgiven" , the rest just have to "live" with it.<br /><br />the rest are going to He((Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-43539450798430230312011-01-11T08:48:55.701-06:002011-01-11T08:48:55.701-06:00This is why predators have to be outed and tracked...This is why predators have to be outed and tracked down This is why every single person who knows or suspects but does not report it is guilty.<br /><br />A Child's life is changed forever because of the act of an evil selfish adultAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-57592507546443459752011-01-10T23:36:10.706-06:002011-01-10T23:36:10.706-06:00"TRUST is lost when abuse enters the frame. T..."TRUST is lost when abuse enters the frame. Trust today and trust tomorrow. Trust in every way."<br /><br />You summed it up perfectly, Anon, and I am so sorry that this is something you relate to. <br /><br />I imagine that every abuse survivor out there will probably weep on reading Bill Zeller's note.<br /><br />I don't think the memories, pain or rot of it all ever really leave completely (and even when we think they do, they still manage to come back and blind-side us yet again, don't they?) -- but I do think that many survivors can often become better capable of placing the rot into a bigger context and of anticipating the stench and learning to move around it.<br /><br />Anon: As long as you are "still trying to fight the good fight," you aren't "losing" . . . you're fighting. And however bloody your fight may make you, you ARE a fighter.Christa Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-61589463330930394532011-01-10T17:22:05.949-06:002011-01-10T17:22:05.949-06:00Anonymous: Your letter saddens me because someone ...Anonymous: Your letter saddens me because someone took what didn't belong to them. You. Your life. It's why I wrote on the topic and why Christa Brown's work is so important. <br /><br />As I read your comment I felt pain shoot right through me because no matter what we do we can never give you back the part of your life called living. Living in joy, happiness, living as an innocent boy who is now a man. That saddens me and angers me beyond what I am able to convey here. I pray that we as Christians, that my denomination which is Southern Baptist, feels your pain and begins to make the necessary changes so that no other child has to experience what you and Bill Zeller among thousands of others have experienced in the one place that should be safest of all. The church.Debbie Kaufmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17748664558802779885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-91902760179754162552011-01-10T16:23:58.436-06:002011-01-10T16:23:58.436-06:00" People don't care about their word or w..." People don't care about their word or what they've promised, they just do whatever the fuck they want and justify it later. It feels incredibly lonely to realize you can never share something with someone and have it be between just the two of you. I don't blame anyone in particular, I guess it's just how people are."<br /><br />I know exactly what this young man felt. At its core, TRUST is lost when abuse enters the frame. Trust today and trust tomorrow. Trust in every way.<br /><br />Sadly, in the end, Bill could not trust any person and, even more, he could not trust himself and that has led him to his final act.<br /><br />I am affected by reading this. I relate so well with many areas of the writer's anguish.<br /><br />I am always looking for hope and yet, maybe it is an illusion. I often feel as though I am just doing my time here until my time is over. Bill's description of "being hit by a bus" or "saving a baby from drowning" hits home for me as I have thought much the same over the years.<br /><br />I have thought about suicide many times over and yet, because I truly don't know how God feels about it, I truly don't know if I will get to Heaven as a suicide victim. If I was convinced that Heaven is my destination, either way, I would have ended it all years ago.<br /><br />Thus, I am still trying to live. I am still trying to fight the good fight. I am losing but I am trying. I can take life or leave life. I suppose this is my lot in life.<br /><br />My God have mercy on Bill Zellers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-30767337254665107632011-01-09T23:18:09.127-06:002011-01-09T23:18:09.127-06:00In one of the articles, one of his Princeton colle...In one of the articles, one of his Princeton colleagues spoke of how brilliant he was and talked about how there was "a disconnect" between how they all saw him and how he saw himself. Obviously, he was infinitely more than the darkness that envelopped him, and yet such is the nature of these wounds that, so often, people are blocked from seeing the reality of their own luminous selves.Christa Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-57756721580318551622011-01-09T22:05:42.659-06:002011-01-09T22:05:42.659-06:00I just finished reading his note on another site a...I just finished reading his note on another site and came here to mail you a link to it, but I see you've already read it.<br /><br />So much in this letter that abuse victims can relate to.<br /><br />He doesn't say who the male abuser is, but when he gets to how much he hates his fundamentalist parents, it's pretty clear.<br /><br />Reading this note was very emotional. There are a number of sites where friends of his are posting, saying he was a thoughtful and kind guy, a genius, a hard worker, brilliant, and no one had any idea about any of this.Davidnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3874123597623259718.post-84074778554526505912011-01-09T21:59:27.832-06:002011-01-09T21:59:27.832-06:00Incredibly sad on so many levels. There was no one...Incredibly sad on so many levels. There was no one he felt safe with. He didn't realize there were other people living with the darkness that could have at least affirmed him....maybe he wouldn't have felt so alone. He carried all the shame and hate around...alone. He said things about himself that sound so "text book" of what was probably said about him by his family members. This is heart breaking.Valarienoreply@blogger.com