I get this line all the time from Baptist preachers. They tell me what “God wants” me to do. Or what God has “called” me for.
As if they know.
“God wants you to return to His fold.”
“God wants you to stop attacking the Lord’s churches.”
“God wants you to find healing among other Christians.”
“God wants you to find a new church home and rejoin Southern Baptists.”
“God wants you to stop holding such bitterness.”
“God wants you to find forgiveness in your heart.”
I’ve heard all of these. And they all arrived with a surreal air of authority.
It’s as though these guys simply assume that their own thoughts are the same as what “God wants.”
My personal favorite was the Baptist preacher who told me, “Your calling is to inform -- your calling is to expose.” And he then proceeded to lecture me on how I should stop “bashing others” for not doing “what YOU are called to do.”
Isn’t that a sad hoot? And it’s such a self-serving sort of thought process.
By convincing himself that God called me, Christa Brown, to expose clergy predators, this guy lets himself and other Southern Baptist leaders off the hook. By his reasoning, those guys in Nashville aren’t supposed to concern themselves with protecting kids against clergy predators because God made that MY task.
Where do these guys get such almighty arrogance? Where in the world do they get the notion that they know what God wants from another person? And where do they get the hubris to think they can tell that person what God wants from them?
Of course, the first thing I immediately know when these guys go down that “God wants you to” track is that they haven’t a clue about the dynamics of clergy sex abuse. If they did, they’d realize that their “God wants you to” line mimics the modus operandi of the clergy perpetrator himself.
That’s the weapon of power.
They project their own sick desires onto the face of God, and then instruct the victim as though their own desires were the will of God.
“God wants you to be my helpmate.”
“God wants you to live by faith and lean not unto thine own understanding.”
As a kid, I heard those lines and many more twisted into a weapon for sexual assault. From the mouth of a Baptist preacher, I heard the most perverse “God wants you to” lines that anyone could possibly imagine. And they all arrived with that same air of authority.
So I don’t want to hear anymore of that “God wants you to” line.
The day I ever again listen to a Baptist preacher purport to tell me what “God wants” or what I am “called” to do will be a cold day in hell. Indeed, I consider that to be the very road to hell.
Christa,
ReplyDeleteIt is a dangerous road when they get into specifics about another person's life using the Name of Almighty God.
God has made it quite clear what He wants in His Word and the fact that they turn a blind eye to the sexual abuse of the 'least of these' should make them tremble with fear.
But, it doesn't.
They do not even bother to publicly rebuke them or those that coddle abusers. That is how hard their hearts are and how blind they are to God's truth. They do NOT represent our Savior.
So, that should tell us all how much they really know about what God wants.
I was re-reading last night through 1-2 Peter, Jude, 1-3 John and the letters to the churches in Revelations. The theme is there...watching out for false teachers, sexual immorality, etc and what happens to those churches that do not repent.
Christa said:
ReplyDelete"The day I ever again listen to a Baptist preacher purport to tell me what “God wants” or what I am “called” to do will be a cold day in hell...."
Lin posted:
"They do not even bother to publicly rebuke them or those that coddle abusers. That is how hard their hearts are and how blind they are to God's truth. They do NOT represent our Savior."
I agree with Lin....they don't represent the Saviour.
So just how would they be able to know what He has called you???
Unfortuately, it's not just the ministers that think they know what God wants us to do.
That twisted theology coming from the seminaries and then being taught from the pulpits affects the thinking of other men....our doctors... (mine told me to "just forgive" the clergy sexual predator and all would be fine...the burden was on ME!),
our employers...(I was told to "obey" and when I thought he MUST be kidding...he quoted scripture(twisted,of course...but he thought he had authority over me!!!)
I am so sick of all of this junk that if I decide to go back to church...I think I will find a "liberal" church where they are just good Samaritans.
What God wants me to do is what God wants ME to do. The Bible is filled with the stories of one person's attempt to tell another person what God wants. Almost all of the time faiure is the consequence of such an attempt. I have never found God to be so feeble that He has to have some other failure of a person to tell this failure of a person what He wants. God is a big God and can speak for Himself.
ReplyDeleteAs a former astor I urge everyone to do their own talking to God and to show enough respect to do their own listening. I would much rather take my chances on listening to Him myself than to trust such an important event to some self-appointed "god-man".
He loves me enough to talk to me. Thanks but no thanks for an assistant little god.
In looking at their common statements to you I can only say two words:
ReplyDeleteHow glib
God wants Southern Baptist officials to make a database.
ReplyDeleteGod wants Southern Baptist officials to stop with the B.S. and start protecting kids.
Yeah... I know... I just channeled Him.
Stop with the lack of reverance for the name of God! He is a holy God and deserving of reverance and reapect. He is not to be treated as one would a common person or situation. I am sick of the trite and trivial way we address Him.
ReplyDeleteGod is Holy!
I wish we could sit and talk -- eye to eye -- all of us. I think if we did we could understand each other better.
ReplyDeleteJohn, I don't know that Anon meant by saying "I just channeled Him" anything any different than you meant by "He loves me enough to talk to me." I think both comments show communication with God. Your comment is about His with you. Anons is his/hers with God.
I believe God loves us unconditionally as we are, where we are, and who we are or are not. I think we can use slang in talking about and to God and that's o.k. with Him. I encourage anyone to read books by Anne Lamott and you will get a whole new view of Christianity and the Christian life. She is most irreverant bordering on what some would consider sacreligious but she has an amazing relationship with God.
He just wants a relationship with us -- and we each do that in the way that we know how, that is most comfortable for us, and in whatever way we are indvidually led.
Interesting... I read Anon's comment as being sarcasm... as though he was poking fun at the Baptist preachers' lines about what "God wants."
ReplyDeleteI guess we don't know exactly what Anon meant (Anon, care to help us out???), but I personally don't read Anon's comment as being any more disrespectful toward God than the comments of the Baptist preachers who presume to tell me what "God wants." I think he was mimicking them to try to make a point???
Phyllis: I too think it would be great it we could all sit down together someday. I have a dream where we're all singing in a choir together. Funny, huh? We're singing "This Little Light" and the choir director is a Baptist abuse survivor who once directed a choir at Lincoln Center. And we're great! Our voices fill the air. It's a wonderful dream! I've had so many awful nightmares in my life - to the point that I hate sleeping - that it's wonderful to wake up from such a good dream for a change... even if it's just a dream.
Sorry folks. I ment no disrespect to anyone with my obsevation. I have had a lot of problems over the years with people referring to God as Big Daddy, the Man up stairs, etc. This has nothing to do with baptists or anyone else. I am sorry to cause any confusion or pain to anyone. There is certainly enough of that without my adding to it.
ReplyDeleteThanks for understanding and forgiving an old preacher who just cannot seem to role with a lot of the things going on and not going on in the church. I will be more selective with my comments in the future.
John: You contribute a lot here, and your comments have often meant a lot to a lot of people. Nothing to forgive. I'm thankful for your contributions.
ReplyDeleteWill you be singing bass or tenor in the choir? ;-)
If I was in the choir, I would bless y'all by singing "Far, Far Away".
ReplyDelete:)
oc.
Or I'd sing solo. So low you can't hear me.
ReplyDeleteGuess I should keep my day job...
O.K., y'all! When's our first choir practice? And "This Little Light" is the perfect song to sing. The "Little Light" I was taught that I have and the "Little Light" that I really have are two different lights. I was always taught that we are to share the/our light of Jesus with the rest of the world. Now I know that I'm really supposed to share my life that was not light -- but dark. But from that darkness has come light and that is what I am to share and that is what I am to celebrate.
ReplyDeleteYes! From our darkness comes light. It's OUR light. And we aren't going to be hiding our lights under a bushel. Oh no! We're singing! We're celebrating! We're survivors! Yeah!
ReplyDeleteAnd a beautiful song it is for it comes from deep inside a heart filled with an undying desire to see justice done and prevention provided. Keep singing until everyone learns the words of your song.
ReplyDeleteJohn,
ReplyDeleteOne thing we can give each other here is grace....nothing to forgive.
Thank you for all you share with us.
Anon,
Hope you are OK too!! I say the same kinds of things when I get people telling me what God TOLD them...(which usually doesnn't sound very scriptural to me)
Christa,
I love that dream!! Maybe if I think about our choir before going to sleep...I will dream it to!!
I've had way too many of those nightmares myself.
That particular song was one of the first I taught my grand baby. She loved to put her finger to her lips and blow ...when we sang "Don't let satan blow it out!"
Christa, do you still play the piano???
I bet we will have a lot of beautiful voices in our choir!! Even OC!! :)
...even the darkness of sin and abuse won't put out the light that God is in us. We're gonna let it shine!!
(...maybe our debut will be on the Oprah show :)
I find it an amazing contadiction of the human spirit. When I asked for forgiveness I not only received it immediately but grace was extended as well. This from people whose spirits have been wounded and should find such a spirit impossible. This is one of the reasons I love this blog. All of you demonstrate such strenght and character in the face of such pain and confusion. I will continue to be faithful to pray for you and for the success of SNAP. If the church has lost you it has trully lost a portion of its soul.God bless.
ReplyDeleteJohn,
ReplyDeleteI've often been on the receiving side of real grace too.
These people here look alot like Jesus, don't they?
Just sayin'.
oc.
And you look like Him too, John.
ReplyDeleteHow ironic life is!
ReplyDeleteI had a pity party instead of a birthday party recently.
I received in the mail a card today from an old friend.
I'm sharing what was written. Maybe someone else needs to hear these words too.
You are a gift to everyone who loves you. I thank God for the warmth you have shared and the light you have cast in my life.
May the candle of your life continue to shine brightly today and every day, and may everyone who basks in it share in your love.
The light of your life will shine brighter than the sun at noontime. Even in times of darkness, you will shine as bright as the morning sun. And you will be secure, because you have hope.
You will work and rest in safety.And when you lie down at night, nothing will make you afraid.
Your light will shine so brightly, many will look upon your light for help. Job 11: 17-19
....I'll be in the 1st soprano section...shining :)
Share the dream, Gmommy!
ReplyDeleteI'm signing you up for a soprano solo. Sleep tight.
Alto here! And there will be none of the junk we have experienced in this choir. Love you all. :-x
ReplyDeleteI was reading your entry Gmommy. Sadly such an answer from a fundamentalist is actually reveals their own lack of faith. If James states about those who say "to go in peace" and does not to intervene what does it say about their faith. Honestly I have never heard this preached rightly because it would seemingly undermine justification but this does not mean it is a "work" that earns salvation rather James is revealing how active that faith is for those who do intervene for others and gets in the middle. I would think that a true fundamentalist would stand in the way and take a fist in the face from an abuser then watch one of their flock take it. To reiterate what, if those who say such things and believe in God's sovereignity then they need to demonstrate it in how they minister to you and not give such trite response. That is the heart of what James is saying. There a some great "liberal" activists that do great job intervention-like ministries but they shift the foundation of salvation away from the atonement toward "the doing." That is really the only way you got to watch out for if you go in that direction.
ReplyDeleteHi Christa
ReplyDeleteIt amazes me how ths people who can nomore than you or I know what their fellow man is thinking. Cn tell us what God is thinking. O am preparing to meet with the offcals from Georg Lowes churc in a effort to reach a settlement. One tod me that I had to forgive him well in an outburst of rage I was about t tell him were o go and how to gt there , but allthat came out was that all I gt to do is stay black and die. I was not trying to make light of the subject Ijust did not know what else to say.
Ben.
ReplyDeleteKnow that you are loved.
oc.
Hey Ben,
ReplyDeleteYou spoke the truth instead of telling them how stupid and shallow they were....you did fine!!Good response!!
How dare this person tell you to forgive.
it isn't about what you need to do...
it's about what a trusted clergy sexual abuser freak did.
It should be about what other Christians will be doing to support and affirm you.
I pray people in your path will show you compassion and care.
Hey Ben!!!!
ReplyDeleteBass or tenor :)
anon 11:18.
ReplyDeleteYou are absolutely correct. The response from "Christian leadership" and those in the pews to those who are wounded... speak volumes about their faith and their own hearts.
I'm thinking about our choir.... we really need a color scheme.
ReplyDeleteGive me some better ideas than just a yellow shirt (thinking of that light we're not hiding under a bushel :)with "RRR"
it's gotta be cool enough so that The Boss won't mind wearing it when he opens for us :)
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ReplyDeleteFrom anon 1118,
ReplyDeleteYea, there needs to be new term called neo-fundmentalism. Classic fundamentalist builds from the bottom up NOT top-down.
Jon Estes: 1) In addition to telling me that my "calling" was "to inform" and "to expose," you also critized me for "...spending time to bash others for doing what it seems you are called to do." I just now went back and double-checked this - it's an accurate quote. 2) I didn't quote the entirety of your multiple comments because that would have been way too long and way too senseless. 3) You also made "a promise" not to bother me further on my blog. 4) When you persisted in making subsequent comments, I told you that I was going to hold you to your promise and asked you not to return to my blog. 5) Once again, you have broken your promise, and so I am telling you flat-out -- you are banned from this blog. I will delete any and all of your comments as soon as I see them. Good ones. Bad ones. Mediocre ones. It doesn't matter what their content is. They will all be deleted. 6) From what I hear, I'm not the first blog you've been banned from. Indeed, I think I've probably been MORE patient than some other bloggers.
ReplyDeleteChrista,
ReplyDeleteIf Mr. Estes was a man of his word, you would not have to remind him about what he has promised. I feel sorry for this guy who thinks he is a pastor. But I feel even more sorry for his congregation. I don't need to say anything further, it's all lined out in the Bible. No surprises. We all knew this day would come.
Just sayin'.
oc.
There is a church out there somewhere in America, probably in the South, and maybe in the East, who is led by one who loves himself first and foremost. Look for one who loves Jesus instead.
ReplyDeleteJust sayin'.
oc.
Ben: Welcome here!
ReplyDeleteFolks: We're building ourselves a choir! Elisabeth - got you in the alto section! Gmommy - don't know about the yellow, but definitely on the RRR - it's gotta be big and bold. (For those who haven't followed this line - RRR stands for the Relentless, ragtag rebel crew. I haven't gone back to trace the history on this, and so I could be mistaken (gmom, correct me if I'm wrong), but as I recall, someone flung the "ragtag" word out as a sort of insult, and gmommy turned it into something good - made us into a rebel crew. And now we're on the way to being a choir, to boot!
Choir director: I think you told me you read the blog occasionally. Are you out there? Join in!
Christa, I was part of a Christian rock band at one time. Can I at least carry the equipment and set up the sound board and monitors? I will tune your guitars too. I can pick Stairway to Heaven.
ReplyDeleteChoose me choose me!!!
The only time I ever got to do amy vocals, I backed up the lead singer on a Janice Joplin song, "piece of my heart". Please let me be in your choir.
ReplyDeleteoc.
Dude is just begging to be in your choir somehow, ain't I???
ReplyDeleteChrista,
ReplyDeleteMan! I turned my computer off after 3am so Jon must have come back to haunt when he was preparing for his sermmon before church this morning! BB(busy butt)!!!
Save his comments before you delete. He acts like a good guy on Wade's blog....some of his "BB" comments may be interesting to those guys :)
I emailed our sweet survivor friend "Cakes" about designing our choir attire. He is an incredible artist... I'm sure he will come up with something wonderful.
when we get our date for the Oprah show, I intend to raise money for plane tickets for those who can't afford them. There are a few silent supporters here in Memphis that I know will help.
I can come up with a bass and guitar player but we need a really good pianist yall!!!!! I have a relative in Chicago (by marriage) that is a professional photographer. He'll do our promo pictures.
I'll have to go back and research too, Christa...I remember someone in the SBC saying "that Christa Brown certainly is Relentless"....
then we were called crew of rebels by someone and ragtag by another..... I'll double check but I think we are some combination of the Relentless ragtag rebel crew :)
OC....your in !!
ReplyDeleteIt's about our light....not just our voice quality!!!!
Are you kidding, oc? You were ALREADY in the choir before you ever asked! But now that we know about all these other equipment and sound board skills, we'll be sure to let the Boss know so that you can help out with his band too. :) You're down for BOTH choir and equipment!
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThanks Christa. I feel so very blessed.
ReplyDeleteoc.
This is going to be so cool...and help so many people come out of the shadows and know they have worth and value!!!!
ReplyDeleteIs "John"...not John Doe... the retired minister we've always had?? Only one right???
John,
Will you be our chaplain????
Everyone be vocalizing and getting your chops up!!!!
If push comes to shove, I'll direct. I'd rather have my back to the camera anyway.
In honor of oc's reference to Janis Joplin:
ReplyDelete"When the road has been too long... just remember in the winter, far beneath the bitter snow, lies the seed that with the sun's love, in the spring, becomes the Rose."
OC,
ReplyDeleteWhat you said, "There is a church out there somewhere in America, probably in the South, and maybe in the East, who is led by one who loves himself first and foremost. Look for one who loves Jesus instead."
I wish there were only ONE who loves himself first and foremost. If you find one in the Memphis area who loves Jesus instead, who has a true servant heart, and who has a heart for ministering to those who are broken and hurting because of childhood shit, please let me know.
Take care.
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ReplyDeletePhyllis,
ReplyDeleteStill looking. I'm so very sorry.
For both of us.
oc.
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ReplyDeleteOC...you better eat those veggies we discussed. Your job load is getting bigger.
ReplyDeleteNo Surrender!!!!
Gmom. Yes ma'am. Love every minute of it. Thank you.
ReplyDeleteLove.
oc.
The John Estes comment should have been kept. Most anyone who puts that type of retort looks like the typical Pharisee...you said..approach
ReplyDeleteMe, Chaplin?! Just to waren you, the SBC rejected me, efter serving as a chaplin for 14years because I went through a divorce. Are you all sure you want a "sinner' like me to be a partof your plan?
ReplyDeleteNeedless to say it would be nothing short of an honor to be a part of anything this group is doing.
Thanks folks.
John, we have some things in common.
ReplyDeleteJust sayin'.
oc.
Chaplin John,
ReplyDeleteYou would not be qualified to be chaplin of the RRR crew had you NOT been rejected ....especially by the SBC.
We have all been rejected. BUT ragtag as we are....we have value and purpose.
This is a huge job!
Only those who have suffered and been wounded or rejected need apply.
while we are on the subject of the strangeness of the SBC consider this. While I was refused endorsement by the SBC as a volunteer chaplain for what they said were "scriptual" reasons they will endorse women as chaplains!I have requested an explanation for this strange twist of the Scripturees only tto be ignored. Also, while the new Baptist Faith and Message statement says that only men should be pastors they are silent about women deacons. Can anyone say, "stupid stand"! The SBC has become notorious for doing what is politically expedient at the moment and for running away from simple questions and observations.
ReplyDeleteWHERE DO I APPLY FOR THE CHAPLAIN'S POSITION WITH THIS GROUP OF GOD'S BEST?!
Actually, the SBC does not endorse women chaplains. And while the BFM is silent about women deacons, several in denomination leadership are not. There are several who would want to put women in a lower than low position in the SBC.
ReplyDeleteFrom Anon 1118 to John...I am fairly irregular to the site. The previous post looked highly formal. I keep coming back to see if there is any progress. The fundamentalist in the SBC gives no creedance to Crista and I don't understand why? I guess that I am one of those males that does believe that God can get my attention through a woman's message. I wonder what would happen if the disciples did not believe that was possible.
ReplyDeleteOct 31 may need another 95 thesis but this time to baptist leadership.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, the truth is the truth no matter who speaks it. Secondly, in the Old Testament many in Israel and many of their enemies had a lot of trouble accepting Deborah as a judge. Thirdly, I believe Jesus settled a lot of the biggoyry towards women when His disciples found him in conversation with the Samaritan woman at the well.The Scriptures clearly stated that none of them dared say anything to him about having a conversation with a woman. i believe they did not say anything because they already knew his position on the subject.
ReplyDeleteLastly, I am so much more concerned with the half-truths and the outright arrogance of the present SBC leadership than to become engaged in a conversation that clearly helps no body but serves to divide and put down a lot of people. This is one of the oldest tricks of Satan when it comes to the church doing what she was put here to accomplish. We are in the midst of a sex scandle among many in the SBC. Let's focus on soling this proble and leave the debatable theological issues to those who have way to much time on their hands.
As far as the disciples are concerned, I think they understood the Lord's heart and knew that he was opposed to divison among the church, so they were able to accomplish so much more than we do because they allowed each person to seek and obey God's leadership in their lives.
I know from experience that many "SBC leaders" when disagreed with will set out to ruin the reputation of thier challengers. so for me to take a very conservative view of the Scriptues and not agree with their individual interpretations sets me up for their anger.Christa has experienced it many times. Now all they can do is cast doubt on her as a person and covince others that she is bitter and unreasonable. Thosa of us who know better must stand up for the truth and for those who dare to be "a light shinning in the dark".
ANON 1118 I hope this gives you some idea as to how I feel about the role of women in the church. Just like it was said of the men and the women in the upper room praying after the Lord's death, we must stay "in one accord."
"Let's focus on solving this problem and leave the debatable theological issues to those who have way to much time on their hands.....
ReplyDeleteThose of us who know better must stand up for the truth and for those who dare to be "a light shinning in the dark".?
You have a BIG Amen from me Chaplain John!!!!
It's so wonderful that we can strive to be an encouragement to Christa and to each other...but I REALLY believe if we put intelligent RELENTLESS passion in our letters and efforts to get this issue before the media in a BIG way....we will help so many!!
I hope that change and healing can come from the abuse so many have suffered.
Christa has done so much...Debbie V, Ben, John Doe...so many more people have shown such strength and courage.
I don't think PP and others who think like him counted on a group of rag tags uniting and singing with one clear strong voice....
It's certainly true that I've been kicked around a lot by Baptist officials. I've been very public, and the fact of my being a woman may make me an easier target in some way in this faith group in which so many leaders express such deeply misogynistic thinking in their words and deeds. But there have also been many men who have written privately to Southern Baptist officials - at the national level and in state conventions - and have told of their childhood abuse at the hands of Baptist ministers. And they too have been treated horribly. The fact that they were men didn't seem to give them any greater credence. They were still carrying a message that no one wanted to hear. And the response was still to kick the messenger.
ReplyDeleteI think what REALLY makes us the target of so much kicking from Baptist officials is the fact that we were molested/raped by their clergy-colleagues -- by their fellow anointed ones. It is THIS fact that transforms us into untouchable pariahs, particularly for anyone who attempts to speak of it. THIS is what we share in common. And THIS is what makes so many Baptist officials want to kick us into oblivion so as to protect their image. And THIS is why we must keep singing with a clear strong voice!
Sorry folks. I know everyone wants to look at the positive and not the negative and think about being on Oprah and having a choir, but please do not tell me women are not supposed to be ordained -- as deacons or as pastors. I once worked at a Cumberland Presbyterian seminary where there were many students who were former Baptists and Lutherans -- men who were divorced but had been called to the ministry who were not able to pastor a SBC church -- and women (SBC and Lutheran) who had been called to the ministry but could not pastor a local church.
ReplyDeletePlease, do not tell me women are not called to the ministry. Who am I or anyone else to tell someone that I know how God has or has not spoken to them. Haven't we talked about this before -- just different examples.
Sorry, but that is what I believe to be true.
Christa,
ReplyDeleteI thought of you and your plight today when I heard the following truth:
Seems that the pastor (Stan Coffee) of the old San Jacinto Baptist Church (a Southern Baptist church now called the Church at Quail Creek) got caught having an affair with a woman in Amarillo, Texas. The deacons didn't want to fire him so they called it an "INAPPROPRIATE COUNSELING RELATIONSHIP" and kept him as their pastor. I guess that's Greek for "sex".
The sad thing is that he was a rising star in the SBC when all this came to light (and nearly everyone in Amarillo knew about it). All of a sudden Stan was no longer on the platform at the SBC--but he still serves on the board of the Southern Baptists of Texas Convention. Go figure that one out.
What a pathetic commentary and just makes me realize how daunting your task must be.
Charles:
ReplyDeleteAs usual you have some details twisted. I didn't tell YOU that...you intrude yourself everywhere....and that has NOTHING to do with the purpose of this blog.
You are banned from this and most blogs because you are a sick freak.
You do not have permission to repeat parts of what I say to others on different forums.
Do not associate me with anything you are obsessed with.
I want NOTHING to do with you or anything you say or do.
Keep your issues away from me.
You are banned from me. Leave me along.
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ReplyDeleteelisabeth,
ReplyDeleteJust a quick FYI. I contacted Steven Dyess the Chaplaincy Evangelism Consultant with the North Am. Mission Board concern9ng women chaplains. Here is his response; "Yes, indeed we do endorse women chaplains.
To gmommy:
ReplyDeleteWatchingHISstory has posted something about you on Pastor Wade's latest blog post. Please check it out.
Just a quick FYI. I contacted Steven Dyess the Chaplaincy Evangelism Consultant with the North Am. Mission Board concern9ng women chaplains. Here is his response; "Yes, indeed we do endorse women chaplains.
ReplyDeleteOctober 27, 2008 11:14 AM
http://kerussocharis.blogspot.com/search/label/Chaplaincy
"It is interesting to note that the North American Mission Board had initially said they would not appoint 'ordained' women. But when they learned that the Army did not require ordination for a woman to serve as Chaplain, just an endorsement from NAMB, the trustees scrambled to stop the practice of endorsements in 2004. In explaining why the trustees would no longer endorse 'women' to be chaplains for the Army, the NAMB Chairman of the Trustee Board said, "we will not endorse a woman where the role and function of the chaplain would be seen the same as that of a pastor."
thy peace,
ReplyDeleteThank you for the heads up.
WH has made it his life's mission to smear the ministry of Adrian Rogers. I do not want any part of that...or Charles Page.
He has no credibility on his own. So now he is dragging me into his latest obsession about BBC and AR.
He has made it public he has "visions" and finds himself on the floor growling in an unknown animal voice.
He says his cruelty is directed by God.
Tenor here.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteHow to do Hyper Links:
ReplyDelete<a href="http://kerussocharis.blogspot.com/">Grace and Truth to You</a>
Grace and Truth to You
I realize the confusion. There are certain types of chaplaincy posts that the Southern Baptists will endorse women for. But posts like military chaplains, where women perform pastor type functions, Southern Baptists will not endorse women for. And of course they will not endorse a woman for anything who is ordained.
ReplyDeleteA friend of mine left the SBC because of this; not because of anger or anything, but because she felt she was called to be a military chaplain.
elisabeth,
ReplyDeleteyou are right on with this. thanks for clearing this up. the SBC has hurt a lot of people with this inconsistant policy. those hurt include those who would benefit from a ministry by a woman
Christa,
ReplyDeleteI am so, so sorry for what happened in your life. I haven't read it, but I will. I am assuming by the blog that you were sexually abused by a so called "man of god".
I love GOD with all my heart and it has taken me 30 years to find the real GOD. Not the one that my abusers said was "god".
MEN AFTER GOD'S OWN HEART DO NOT SEXUALLY ABUSE, RAPE, FONDLE, TOUCH, KISS, MANIPULATE, ETC. YOUNG GIRLS OR BOYS!!
If they were dealt with as the "early church" dealt with such sexual immorality, they would be turned out of the church, PERIOD. The Bible, and especially GOD, is never in the business of covering up unrepentant sin!
I was raped as a 16 year old virgin (keeping myself pure for GOD until marriage) by an older by almost 10 years "evangelist and youth pastor". This church did not ordain the normal way so he had no formal training.
He was not in the SBC or the IFB. He was in a pentacostal/holiness Church of GOD of Prophecy. I was allowed to go there by a Christian mom who liked that they had so many young people in their church.
I was naive, insecure, and so I was picked out I suppose as the weakest in the pack. My perpertrator violently raped me after lying to me that his parents had invited me to dinner after church. They were away on holiday (Labor Day weekend 1976).
After the deed was done with, I was told that I had to repent of the sin of causing lust. Then I was told that I had to marry and remain with this man for all my life or I would be in danger of hell. If I married another I would be committing adultery because I belonged with the "rapist" according to a scripture out of the old testament.
I decided after living through such sexual abuse that I must live in hell later than now. I did not tell my parents or anyone because I was made to feel I had "sinned" and committed an unpardonable sin.
After all these years and all the pain and all the failures and therapy, you would think I would never ever want religion, GOD, etc.
But GOD came for me. I know HIM now as what HE truly is - MY FATHER.
My abuser was confronted by me and he admitted his crime in front of alot of people that needed to know.
He got a young girl pregnant probably 10 years after he hurt me.
He finally married her and he had a son himself.
GOD takes personally what is done to HIS daughters. We may not get justice always in this life, but GOD will have HIS way with unrepentant and arrogant sins.
I pray for you and all that you go through.
With love and prayers,
Teri
his daughter,
ReplyDeleteI am again sickened to hear that yet another one of God's children met the devil in cleric cloth. You are brave to share your story. You have also come to the right place where you will find the strongest people I have ever net. They WILL love you. They WILL pray for you. You will never feel like an outsider with these tremendous saints of God.
I rejoice with you in you progress in dealing with what happened. Please be assured you WILL be in my prayers.
Teri, Thanks for sharing your story. It is so unbelievable what goes on out there and you are right...they are not of Christ. They do not even really know Him. That is the point many say we are not allowed to make. But, I am not afraid to make it.
ReplyDeleteBy their fruit you will know them.
I praise God for coming after you to make you His own.
Teri: Welcome here, and thanks for sharing a bit of your story. I think it helps others who are still silent when they see stories such as yours, because it helps them to realize that they aren't alone, that clergy abuse is actually quite common, and that it may be possible to eventually reach a point of being able to speak of the trauma. And it IS a trauma. It always inflicts horrible harm, as you know -- I am so sorry.
ReplyDelete"I was naive, insecure, and so I was picked out I suppose as the weakest in the pack."
This sort of thinking - of trying to understand why we were picked as prey - is something I think almost all of us do at one time or another. We think about being weak, vulnerable, naive. We think about our dysfunctional families, etc. etc. And all of these may indeed be factors that made us more likely targets. However, I also think it's true that ALL kids carry vulnerabilities. The vulnerability of some may be more obvious than others, but ALL kids carry vulnerability, and predators are particularly adept at figuring out how to hone in on a kid's vulnerability. For many church kids, the biggest vulnerability they carry is their faith. It's the kids' own strong faith that clergy-predators are able to twist into a weapon to use against them... and that is often the sickest and most tragic part of this terrible crime.